2 ms·

Have you ever been to East Asia? They don't have the latest iPhones but they have a better cell phone network than the United States and cheap Android phones fr

Have you ever been to East Asia? They don't have the latest iPhones but they have a better cell phone network than the United States and cheap Android phones from which they do just about everything. You'll get four bars in the middle of nowhere compared to the United States spotty coverage concentrated on population centers. But pay no attention to geopolitical competitors, what could they possibly know that we don't? Or if you call capitalism a failure because only rich people can afford MacLarens, you're just being disingenuous. See also cheap perfectly serviceable 60" flat screen TVs versus a 85" Samsung Goliath. I don't want a society with zero wealth gap. They tried that during the cultural revolution and it sucked every bit as badly as the libertarian dystopia Peter Thiel wants to make happen. We have a really serious inequality problem with fairly simple answers that are politically infeasible until we federalize all campaign funding.

klyrs 5y ago
> I don't want a society with zero wealth gap. They tried that during the cultural revolution and it sucked every bit as badly as the libertarian dystopia Peter Thiel wants to make happen. No, they didn't. That was the story the masses were sold, but power and wealth were a function of the hierarchy rooted at Mao Zedong. But also, I don't believe that zero wealth gap is a reasonable goal, so kindly lay off the strawman. Nordic countries show that there is a lot of room for improvement in terms of inequality, without a blush of the totalitarianism that you fear.
- varelse 5y ago
  Yes, that's exactly what happens when you try to create a zero wealth gap - people cheat. You are the one that brought up the zero wealth gap with "Is there zero wealth gap between people who shop at Walmart and the people who make the cheap crap that gets sold at Walmart", not me. So if you don't want to be contradicted on a subject, try not mentioning it in the first place, pro-tip even. And libertarianism is just institutionalized cheating for all. Same result as communism in the long run - a tiny ruling class and a world full of peasants where it's good to be the king. I'll take neither. But I'd love socialized healthcare, medicare for all even. Spoilers: a country infested with a bunch of temporarily embarrassed millionaires will never let that happen. And even in a global pandemic, if you don't get private money out of campaign financing, you'll never get a shot at convincing those temporarily embarrassed millionaires of anything else. But by all means, you be you.
  - netizen-936824 5y ago
    What? People cheat in america constantly. Wasn't there a whole ton of fraud recently when it came to unemployment and the small business loans? People cheated for billions, capitalism definitely doesn't prevent thag
    - varelse 5y ago
      Yes, people cheat* because they are selfish, and any economic system has to take that into account which is where communism and libertarianism fall apart. But I thought we were talking about how if we have to wear stillsuits in the future, no one will be able to afford stillsuits except the rich despite the historical evidence 100% to the contrary. The rich will get them first though, designer stillsuits even, deal with it. Can't have everything. *But if you had any idea how many weird tricks the $100M+ class employs to avoid paying taxes, 100% legally ATM because our 2500+ page WTF tax code, you'd probably want to storm the Capitol again (or maybe not because you might have convinced yourself those weird tricks might come in handy some even though they probably won't).
    - throwawayboise 5y ago
      When the government gives away money or makes loans with zero effort to qualify the recipients/borrowers, yes there will be cheating. That's not capitalism though.
      - netizen-936824 5y ago
        My point was that capitalism has produced people and behaviors which do the cheating
        varelse 5y ago
        Who would just cheat differently under any other system because cheaters gonna cheat. And that's why we still can't have nice things.

klyrs 5y ago

> I don't want a society with zero wealth gap. They tried that during the cultural revolution and it sucked every bit as badly as the libertarian dystopia Peter Thiel wants to make happen. No, they didn't. That was the story the masses were sold, but power and wealth were a function of the hierarchy rooted at Mao Zedong. But also, I don't believe that zero wealth gap is a reasonable goal, so kindly lay off the strawman. Nordic countries show that there is a lot of room for improvement in terms of inequality, without a blush of the totalitarianism that you fear.

varelse 5y ago
Yes, that's exactly what happens when you try to create a zero wealth gap - people cheat. You are the one that brought up the zero wealth gap with "Is there zero wealth gap between people who shop at Walmart and the people who make the cheap crap that gets sold at Walmart", not me. So if you don't want to be contradicted on a subject, try not mentioning it in the first place, pro-tip even. And libertarianism is just institutionalized cheating for all. Same result as communism in the long run - a tiny ruling class and a world full of peasants where it's good to be the king. I'll take neither. But I'd love socialized healthcare, medicare for all even. Spoilers: a country infested with a bunch of temporarily embarrassed millionaires will never let that happen. And even in a global pandemic, if you don't get private money out of campaign financing, you'll never get a shot at convincing those temporarily embarrassed millionaires of anything else. But by all means, you be you.
- netizen-936824 5y ago
  What? People cheat in america constantly. Wasn't there a whole ton of fraud recently when it came to unemployment and the small business loans? People cheated for billions, capitalism definitely doesn't prevent thag
  - varelse 5y ago
    Yes, people cheat* because they are selfish, and any economic system has to take that into account which is where communism and libertarianism fall apart. But I thought we were talking about how if we have to wear stillsuits in the future, no one will be able to afford stillsuits except the rich despite the historical evidence 100% to the contrary. The rich will get them first though, designer stillsuits even, deal with it. Can't have everything. *But if you had any idea how many weird tricks the $100M+ class employs to avoid paying taxes, 100% legally ATM because our 2500+ page WTF tax code, you'd probably want to storm the Capitol again (or maybe not because you might have convinced yourself those weird tricks might come in handy some even though they probably won't).
  - throwawayboise 5y ago
    When the government gives away money or makes loans with zero effort to qualify the recipients/borrowers, yes there will be cheating. That's not capitalism though.
    - netizen-936824 5y ago
      My point was that capitalism has produced people and behaviors which do the cheating
      - varelse 5y ago
        Who would just cheat differently under any other system because cheaters gonna cheat. And that's why we still can't have nice things.