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Not surprising that this is coming shortly after Kazakhstan's internet access was disrupted [1]. It's a lot easier to murder your citizens if they can't expose
by fuckcensorship 5y ago
Not surprising that this is coming shortly after Kazakhstan's internet access was disrupted [1]. It's a lot easier to murder your citizens if they can't expose such atrocities to the rest of the world.
[1]: https://netblocks.org/reports/internet-disrupted-in-kazakhstan-amid-energy-price-protests-oy9YQgy3 https://netblocks.org/reports/internet-disrupted-in-kazakhst...
- bigdict 5y agoJust to play devil's advocate, it's also easier when they come at you with automatic weapons and cut law enforcement officers' heads off.
- 1_player 5y agoWhat should they do, light candles, fast and hold silent protests to revolt against decades-long autocratic government based on nepotism and systemic corruption? Perhaps a couple viral Twitter hashtags might help? History teaches that revolution is paid in blood, every time. It's quite naive and first-world to assume any extreme political change can be done peacefully. You need blood to create democracy, and you need blood to tear it down.
- throwawayacc2 5y agoThis comment could be copy pasted on a video supporting the January 6th storming of the Capitol, and it would fit right in and receive upvotes. I am not making any moral judgements either about Kazakstan or January 6th, just an observation on context and how it affects our perception.
- 1_player 5y agoI explicitly said any type of revolution, for and against democracy. It is just an observation based upon history. Please do not use my words to mark me as a, and I quote, supporter of the storming of the Capitol. It is not appreciated, and your comment sounds like flame bait.
- andrewflnr 5y agoThat's not what they're doing.
- notch656a 5y agoWhat is it that they're doing? I'm not Kazakh so I'd be interested in hearing your Kazakh opinion as their representative.
- andrewflnr 5y agoAnd that's not what I was talking about. throwawayacc2 was clearly not trying to paint 1_player as supporting the 1-6 insurrection, but making a meta point about the latter's argument.
- throwawayacc2 5y agoSorry it came across that way, that was not my intention. It is an observation on the form of the comment and how the same sentiment can be seen in different groups. For what is worth I agree with your observation on history.
- foverzar 5y agoThis gets even more contrast if you compare video evidence and try to assert the amount of firearms used. Really makes you think how stretchable the images of "peaceful protestors" and "dangerous terrorists" can get.
- notch656a 5y agoI'm not aware of firearms being used on anyone at the capitol except the [unarmed] woman who was shot by secret service/capitol police.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- foverzar 5y agoAnd yet they are "terrorists", but thugs who use firearms against police, and raid armory's are simply "protestors".
- notch656a 5y ago>And yet they are "terrorists" Says who? > but thugs who use firearms against police, and raid armory's are simply "protestors". Says who? Those who defend against Kazakh police following a shoot to kill order, I'd call them a hero.
- foverzar 5y ago> Says who? Says CNN and all the opened domestic terrorism cases https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/10/politics/jason-crow-army-inauguration/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2021/01/10/politics/jason-crow-army-... > Says who? Says Reuters, trying to depict common thugs as "protestors". > defend against Kazakh police following a shoot to kill order Oh please, stop lionising common armed thugs. They are not "defending", they are THE cause and the target of a shoot to kill order. There are already 19 from "MVD" reported dead. A shoot to kill order would be implied by default in any developed country, as soon as the first serviceman was wounded, especially with a firearm. It's surprising that the government did not respond properly and in time.
- bigdict 5y agoSo what's so shocking then about the government response?
- notch656a 5y agoWhat's shocking is he said the quiet part out loud, so now anyone going on the streets knows to be armed and ready because their enemy will take no quarter.
- kfarr 5y agoI'm no expert on these subjects, but reading the original Reuters post reminds me of a similar pattern of events from Russia's entry into Ukraine. IIRC Russia paid or otherwise clandestinely influenced their own insurgents to start violent protests against the Ukraine government and US military presence, and then used the conflict as an excuse for the Russian state to take over territory. Is this the same concept or am I just being paranoid?
- WHA8m 5y agoIn my opinion, you're not paranoid.
- kfarr 5y agoPhew! Thanks
- rich_sasha 5y agoA similar thing happened in Afghanistan in the 80s, then Caucasus post-1989. Notional government appeals for help, Russian tanks appear and don’t leave. The difference is that the current government is undemocratic, though “legal”, not a new entity.
- nisa 5y agoIn this case there is a treaty for help and the kazakh dictator just requested help via this treaty. I guess the russian military will only protect important infrastructure and will try to avoid shooting civilians. Of course there is a lot unknown.
- jjcm 5y agoThis is part of the reason why I’m excited for things like starlink - access that can’t be cut off for media companies in these locations. It’s going to go a long way in changing the power dynamic.
- avmich 5y agoYou're not going to have Starlink in the countries where it's illegal in the first place, so there is no access to cut off. Right?
- mensetmanusman 5y agoSmuggling of pizza-dish sized things seems reasonable. Also, could deploy thousands of fake transmitters to make it hard to locate real ones without lots of resources.
- avmich 5y agoRight, but Starlink may not serve locations in the country which forbids its use. Would be glad to be wrong here. Smuggling and deploying fakes have their own problems. I'd also propose optical channel - with its own pro and contras - or means to cheaply manufacture receivers. It's a big discussion.
- bigdict 5y agoI think it's more about disrupting the protesters' ability to coordinate than you getting fresh footage from Kazakhstan.
- kunagi7 5y agoPretty much. Kazakhstan and Russia governments want to end this the faster way possible to avoid another Ukraine situation [1]. They will remove everything, Internet, electricity to calm things down. The thing that ignited this massive protest was that fuel subsidies were being removed [2]. But they were extended again after this humongous backslash [3]. Still, subsidizing energy is not a good idea when your country economy can't afford it. I hope this tragic situation gets solved with the least deaths possible (since peacefully sounds unfeasible now). [1] Since 2014, one region is part of Russia (Crimea) and 2 of them are under rebel army control (Donetsk and Lugansk). [2] https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/kazakhstan-reminds-world-leaders-costly-fuel-subsidy-dilemma-2022-01-06/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/kazakhstan-remin... [3] https://www.yahoo.com/now/kazakhstan-unrest-government-restores-fuel-141908943.html https://www.yahoo.com/now/kazakhstan-unrest-government-resto...
- mbg721 5y agoIs it that much easier than before? The few outsiders among the lay public who knew anything about Kazakhstan in the first place didn't have a particularly favorable view of its rulers anyway.
- Koshkin 5y agoIt is only easier if internet access is never to be restored again.
- jbverschoor 5y agoStop launch some more satellites and create a mesh network on the ground