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Kazakh president gives shoot-to-kill order to quell protests
- fuckcensorship 5y agoNot surprising that this is coming shortly after Kazakhstan's internet access was disrupted [1]. It's a lot easier to murder your citizens if they can't expose such atrocities to the rest of the world. [1]: https://netblocks.org/reports/internet-disrupted-in-kazakhstan-amid-energy-price-protests-oy9YQgy3 https://netblocks.org/reports/internet-disrupted-in-kazakhst...
- bigdict 5y agoJust to play devil's advocate, it's also easier when they come at you with automatic weapons and cut law enforcement officers' heads off.
- 1_player 5y agoWhat should they do, light candles, fast and hold silent protests to revolt against decades-long autocratic government based on nepotism and systemic corruption? Perhaps a couple viral Twitter hashtags might help? History teaches that revolution is paid in blood, every time. It's quite naive and first-world to assume any extreme political change can be done peacefully. You need blood to create democracy, and you need blood to tear it down.
- throwawayacc2 5y agoThis comment could be copy pasted on a video supporting the January 6th storming of the Capitol, and it would fit right in and receive upvotes. I am not making any moral judgements either about Kazakstan or January 6th, just an observation on context and how it affects our perception.
- 1_player 5y agoI explicitly said any type of revolution, for and against democracy. It is just an observation based upon history. Please do not use my words to mark me as a, and I quote, supporter of the storming of the Capitol. It is not appreciated, and your comment sounds like flame bait.
- andrewflnr 5y agoThat's not what they're doing.
- notch656a 5y agoWhat is it that they're doing? I'm not Kazakh so I'd be interested in hearing your Kazakh opinion as their representative.
- andrewflnr 5y agoAnd that's not what I was talking about. throwawayacc2 was clearly not trying to paint 1_player as supporting the 1-6 insurrection, but making a meta point about the latter's argument.
- throwawayacc2 5y agoSorry it came across that way, that was not my intention. It is an observation on the form of the comment and how the same sentiment can be seen in different groups. For what is worth I agree with your observation on history.
- foverzar 5y agoThis gets even more contrast if you compare video evidence and try to assert the amount of firearms used. Really makes you think how stretchable the images of "peaceful protestors" and "dangerous terrorists" can get.
- notch656a 5y ago
- bigdict 5y agoSo what's so shocking then about the government response?
- notch656a 5y agoWhat's shocking is he said the quiet part out loud, so now anyone going on the streets knows to be armed and ready because their enemy will take no quarter.
- kfarr 5y agoI'm no expert on these subjects, but reading the original Reuters post reminds me of a similar pattern of events from Russia's entry into Ukraine. IIRC Russia paid or otherwise clandestinely influenced their own insurgents to start violent protests against the Ukraine government and US military presence, and then used the conflict as an excuse for the Russian state to take over territory. Is this the same concept or am I just being paranoid?
- WHA8m 5y agoIn my opinion, you're not paranoid.
- kfarr 5y agoPhew! Thanks
- rich_sasha 5y agoA similar thing happened in Afghanistan in the 80s, then Caucasus post-1989. Notional government appeals for help, Russian tanks appear and don’t leave. The difference is that the current government is undemocratic, though “legal”, not a new entity.
- nisa 5y agoIn this case there is a treaty for help and the kazakh dictator just requested help via this treaty. I guess the russian military will only protect important infrastructure and will try to avoid shooting civilians. Of course there is a lot unknown.
- jjcm 5y agoThis is part of the reason why I’m excited for things like starlink - access that can’t be cut off for media companies in these locations. It’s going to go a long way in changing the power dynamic.
- avmich 5y agoYou're not going to have Starlink in the countries where it's illegal in the first place, so there is no access to cut off. Right?
- mensetmanusman 5y agoSmuggling of pizza-dish sized things seems reasonable. Also, could deploy thousands of fake transmitters to make it hard to locate real ones without lots of resources.
- avmich 5y agoRight, but Starlink may not serve locations in the country which forbids its use. Would be glad to be wrong here. Smuggling and deploying fakes have their own problems. I'd also propose optical channel - with its own pro and contras - or means to cheaply manufacture receivers. It's a big discussion.
- bigdict 5y agoI think it's more about disrupting the protesters' ability to coordinate than you getting fresh footage from Kazakhstan.
- kunagi7 5y agoPretty much. Kazakhstan and Russia governments want to end this the faster way possible to avoid another Ukraine situation [1]. They will remove everything, Internet, electricity to calm things down. The thing that ignited this massive protest was that fuel subsidies were being removed [2]. But they were extended again after this humongous backslash [3]. Still, subsidizing energy is not a good idea when your country economy can't afford it. I hope this tragic situation gets solved with the least deaths possible (since peacefully sounds unfeasible now). [1] Since 2014, one region is part of Russia (Crimea) and 2 of them are under rebel army control (Donetsk and Lugansk). [2] https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/kazakhstan-reminds-world-leaders-costly-fuel-subsidy-dilemma-2022-01-06/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/kazakhstan-remin... [3] https://www.yahoo.com/now/kazakhstan-unrest-government-restores-fuel-141908943.html https://www.yahoo.com/now/kazakhstan-unrest-government-resto...
- mbg721 5y agoIs it that much easier than before? The few outsiders among the lay public who knew anything about Kazakhstan in the first place didn't have a particularly favorable view of its rulers anyway.
- Koshkin 5y agoIt is only easier if internet access is never to be restored again.
- jbverschoor 5y agoStop launch some more satellites and create a mesh network on the ground
- ralmidani 5y agoPutin and Pals, and their apologists, make it sound like people living under these regimes enjoy human rights, fair elections, a free press, no corruption, and a high standard of living, and have no reason at all to revolt if not for “Western meddling”. It makes sense to say that if you’re a mass-murderer like Putin who never believed in human dignity, but the rhetoric of tankies and privileged apologists who live in the West, and have no idea what it’s like to live in a dictatorship, is mind-numbingly hypocritical. If the West is so bad and Russia, China, Iran, Syria, Kazakhstan, etc. are so incredibly better, why do they still live in the West?
- foverzar 5y ago> If the West is so bad and Russia, China, Iran, Syria, Kazakhstan, etc. are so incredibly better, why do they still live in the West? So, "Putin and Pals" live in the West? Ayy, lmao.
- kingofpandora 5y agoralmidani is clearly referring to "tankies and privileged apologists who live in the West" not "Putin and Pals".
- foverzar 5y ago> shoot-to-kill order to quell protests What a typical headline manipulation. And the article barely mentions all the armed banditry, nice. Way to paint a dramatic picture, Reuters.
- notch656a 5y agoBy armed bandits you're talking about Kazakh Government, correct?
- foverzar 5y agoPlease drop that act, as if you don't understand what I mean. I am not looking to pick a fight and acting stupid doesn't really do you any good. There were enough photographic evidence of armed bandits attacking the police, trashing and robing property, setting it ablaze, and even a few videos of thugs raiding a police department's armory. People had died. This is no longer a joking matter, sorry.
- happytoexplain 5y agoNone of that sounds like a reason to kill them in the street - not that I think you're wrong, but just that I'm only going off your abbreviated descriptions. Both of your posts have an aggressive tone that is condoning a government killing citizens with very brief reasoning given for justification relative to the extreme seriousness of that stance. They also contain sarcasm. I'm not merely criticizing you - I'm just pointing out that it's unrealistic for you to say "I am not looking to pick a fight". Edit: It doesn't sound like a reason to kill them because "they did X" can't mean "kill them" for essentially any X, the operative word being "did". I.e. government agents must (morally) reserve lethal force against their own citizens for when they are under immediate threat of an intent to kill, and they are (morally) obligated to avoid that situation in the first place, if at all practical, for admittedly various definitions of "practical".
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- stareatgoats 5y agoThat's not good. But sorry, I don't buy the "upstanding citizens revolt because gas prices went up" narrative that the major news networks are proposing. The real question is; what foreign powers are instigating riots in Kazakhstan, and why. That many people have been discontent with an autocratic regime is no longer enough for me to applaud the possible creation of yet another failed state.
- wyre 5y agoThere were gigantic protests in France recently for basically the same reason and no one was accusing a foreign power of instigating riots in France. Why would these riots in Kazakhstan be any different?
- foverzar 5y agoMedia coverage, mostly. Especially one going from the state-owned (or corporate-owned with political affiliation, in case of US) media. It is really the best litmus paper there is.
- w0de0 5y agoHow does one "instigate riots"?
- xboxnolifes 5y agoThe same way intelligence agencies instigate terrorism plots.
- ralmidani 5y agoTerrorist attacks take a few determined individuals, and would be relatively easy to instigate and pull off. But the suggestion that a foreign power can convince thousands of people with no grievances to come out and protest is laughably unrealistic, not to mention insulting.
- 5y ago