6 ms·

Exactly the same for me. I'm currently in the "I know I should be doing X but not being able to bring myself to" cycle on a piece of a major project. It's not h

by pbrb 5y ago

Exactly the same for me. I'm currently in the "I know I should be doing X but not being able to bring myself to" cycle on a piece of a major project. It's not hard work, I know how to do it, but I just cannot do it. I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child, and have avoided the medication my whole life. Recently, I decided to try Adderall. It's like magic to be honest, and has helped tremendously in multiple ways. I can focus on a single task, less pain in getting started on tasks, can actually stay focused, can listen without the draining mental effort to force myself to, and am less forgetful. But for some reason, this one project has put me right back in the same old 'cannot do this' state even with the Adderall.

randallsquared 5y ago
> It's like magic to be honest For nearly everyone, if I understand correctly, ADHD or no.
- omginternets 5y ago
  It’ll definitely stimulate everyone, adhd or no, but most people don’t have a brain fog that will be lifted by the meds. Nor do they have a plethora of other symptoms that amphetamine salts alleviate.
- romwell 5y ago
  You understand incorrectly, and you are propagating a harmful stereotype (which makes medication harder to obtain for people who need it). Aderall has vastly different effects on people with ADHD vs. the rest. The best I can say is the Adderall makes us feel the way you feel normally. To us, it feels like magic. The ability to switch from a task you're engaged in? The ability to do something that you need to do and want to do - and even enjoy - when you want to do it? Magic. Enjoy the superpowers you never knew you had.
  - HighlandSpring 5y ago
    > Enjoy the superpowers you never knew you had. This so much. I rarely attempt to communicate the experience of ADHD because it's rarely worth the effort but one of the times that I did to a good friend I was met with an affectionate "so you're a bit of a retard" and it's hard to argue otherwise.
    - romwell 5y ago
      The best I can come up with in terms of analogy is manual focus (like on old-school camera lens) vs. autofocus * Manual focus may not be very sharp, but you can change it instantly, and get within the ballpark every time. * Autofocus is very sharp... but not necessarily on what you want to capture. If it's not shiny enough, autofocus never locks in on that subject. If a bird flies past the window while you snap a photo of the blackboard, it will focus on the bird, and the blackboard comes out blurry. Since it's automatic, you can't just focus where you want to; you need to trick the circuit to work properly.
  - randallsquared 5y ago
    While I have never taken that specific stimulant, nor been diagnosed with ADHD, my partner is diagnosed, and I'm... somewhat familiar with the topic, let's say (though she's prescribed something other than Adderall). You may have read SSC[0][1] on the topic, but I'll leave it here in case you haven't, or for others. [0] https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mo... [1] SSC (now switched to astralcodexten.substack.com) is a psychiatrist who has some expertise in the area.
    - romwell 5y ago
      >While I have never taken that specific stimulant, nor been diagnosed with ADHD ...you are not qualified to make statements of the sort, and I urge you to listen to people who have been diagnosed with ADHD and do take Adderall. Another, fascinating thing to consider is that you may have ADHD. I was one of those people who said things similar to what you just did, because I had no idea that everyone, in fact, did not have the same struggles. How many of the posts in [2] do you find yourself relating to? If it's more then a dozen, consider getting an assessment (and reading up). >You may have read SSC... No, I have not. Thank you for linking it. If you read it, again, you will see that he reaffirms my point: that there are serious risks associated with Adderall taken by people who don't have ADHD, while it is an effective tool for people with ADHD (though, like every medication, it does not work for some, and can have side effects). Please read what I have to say about ADHD medication, Adderall specifically, here: [1], and compare and contrast with SSC's "Summary" section. Additionally, I should add that the introduction part of that article sounds like a failed attempt to describe a complex disorder to laymen. Part of it are not correct. Psychiatrists are not infallible. I can go at length addressing which parts you shouldn't take, but let's say, the take-away from that article is in the summary, and please read what I have to say about it, and see how it compares with your experience of stimulants being taken by non-afflicted people. [1] On Adderall: https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication [2] All posts: https://romankogan.net/adhd/ https://romankogan.net/adhd/ ---- TL;DR: Adderall helps me calm down, helps me switch between tasks (i.e. break focus), and helps me fall asleep when I go to bed. This is not how it works for neurotypical people. If this is how it works for you, perhaps get yourself assessed for ADHD.
  - hirvi74 5y ago
    Any sources for your claims, I've read the opposite? > Many double blind studies over the past 40 years have uniformly agreed that stimulants such as methylphenidate, dextro-amphetamine, as well as other substances, are very effective in the treatment of 70%–80% of children and adults with ADHD. One of the myths of ADHD is that ADHD children show a paradoxical effect of being calmed by stimulants, while “normal” individuals are stimulated by them. However, studies have shown that the activity levels are decreased and attention levels are increased by stimulants in individuals with and without ADHD. The difference is that since the levels of hyperactivity and inattention are much higher in ADHD subjects, the improvement is relatively much greater, giving the impression that they respond, while non-ADHD subjects do not. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC2626918/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC2626918/ I also have ADHD, and I feel like the medication benefits are vastly overstated. To use an analogy, I was lead to believe that the medication is as effective as opioids for severe pain, but my experiences have been about as effective as Ibuprofen for severe pain. I've tried many different formulations, brands, drug classes -- many of which multiple times at multiple dosages, and I don't feel "magical" yet. I still take some meds because they're better than nothing, but I am starting to wonder if people are just being overly hyperbolic, and I had too great of expectations.
    - romwell 5y ago
      Medication doesn't have the same effect for everyone. I was lucky in the way it worked for me, perhaps. The point is, just experiencing this month of calm and ability to do things helped me overcome a lifetime of learned helplessness. I am more effective now without Adderall than I was before I've had it, simply because I can catch myself getting into the brain fog and using e.g. the help of my partner to break out of it. Speaking of Ibuprofen, it feels like magic to me too. I've had 100+ degree fever from COVID booster, my whole body was aching, I felt cold, but putting my socks on (which I had in my hands felt like an immense chore). Ibuprofen cleared that within an hour. Was it "severe" pain? Let's say, I've had worse. But Ibuprofen took me from 100% non-functioning to mostly-functioning. Magic. In any case, I feel like what you wrote does not contradict what I said. Let's use glasses as an analogy. Arguably, prescription glasses can be used by people with good vision either to resolve finer print, or to resolve text much further away. The laws of optics work the same for them. However, we would say that the effect of wearing glasses is drastically different for people who need a strong prescription vs. people who do not. As they say, size (of the effect) matters. >The difference is that since the levels of hyperactivity and inattention are much higher in ADHD subjects, the improvement is relatively much greater, giving the impression that they respond, while non-ADHD subjects do not. It's like saying that giving food to someone who's starving is the same as to someone who's eating well. The effect is the same, the response is different. Those who don't live in constant brain fog don't really get to feel how Adderall helps with that. Anyway, my personal experience with Adderall is written up here: https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication I'll be glad to look to sources to back up my claims (or stand corrected and learn); but can you help me out and say what it is that you want references for? I struggled to understand where we're disagreeing, though we'd perhaps use different words to talk about the same thing.
  - tgaj 5y ago
    To be honest he is somehow right. It's magic for everyone but for people with ADHD (like me or you) it gets us to the level of normal people. For normal people is giving them nearly superhuman focus. I don't think the theory that stimulants are working somehow very different for us than for normal people is valid. But that of course is my opinion.

by pbrb 5y ago

randallsquared 5y ago

> It's like magic to be honest For nearly everyone, if I understand correctly, ADHD or no.

omginternets 5y ago
It’ll definitely stimulate everyone, adhd or no, but most people don’t have a brain fog that will be lifted by the meds. Nor do they have a plethora of other symptoms that amphetamine salts alleviate.
romwell 5y ago
You understand incorrectly, and you are propagating a harmful stereotype (which makes medication harder to obtain for people who need it). Aderall has vastly different effects on people with ADHD vs. the rest. The best I can say is the Adderall makes us feel the way you feel normally. To us, it feels like magic. The ability to switch from a task you're engaged in? The ability to do something that you need to do and want to do - and even enjoy - when you want to do it? Magic. Enjoy the superpowers you never knew you had.
- HighlandSpring 5y ago
  > Enjoy the superpowers you never knew you had. This so much. I rarely attempt to communicate the experience of ADHD because it's rarely worth the effort but one of the times that I did to a good friend I was met with an affectionate "so you're a bit of a retard" and it's hard to argue otherwise.
  - romwell 5y ago
    The best I can come up with in terms of analogy is manual focus (like on old-school camera lens) vs. autofocus * Manual focus may not be very sharp, but you can change it instantly, and get within the ballpark every time. * Autofocus is very sharp... but not necessarily on what you want to capture. If it's not shiny enough, autofocus never locks in on that subject. If a bird flies past the window while you snap a photo of the blackboard, it will focus on the bird, and the blackboard comes out blurry. Since it's automatic, you can't just focus where you want to; you need to trick the circuit to work properly.
- randallsquared 5y ago
  While I have never taken that specific stimulant, nor been diagnosed with ADHD, my partner is diagnosed, and I'm... somewhat familiar with the topic, let's say (though she's prescribed something other than Adderall). You may have read SSC[0][1] on the topic, but I'll leave it here in case you haven't, or for others. [0] https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-more-than-you-wanted-to-know/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/12/28/adderall-risks-much-mo... [1] SSC (now switched to astralcodexten.substack.com) is a psychiatrist who has some expertise in the area.
  - romwell 5y ago
    >While I have never taken that specific stimulant, nor been diagnosed with ADHD ...you are not qualified to make statements of the sort, and I urge you to listen to people who have been diagnosed with ADHD and do take Adderall. Another, fascinating thing to consider is that you may have ADHD. I was one of those people who said things similar to what you just did, because I had no idea that everyone, in fact, did not have the same struggles. How many of the posts in [2] do you find yourself relating to? If it's more then a dozen, consider getting an assessment (and reading up). >You may have read SSC... No, I have not. Thank you for linking it. If you read it, again, you will see that he reaffirms my point: that there are serious risks associated with Adderall taken by people who don't have ADHD, while it is an effective tool for people with ADHD (though, like every medication, it does not work for some, and can have side effects). Please read what I have to say about ADHD medication, Adderall specifically, here: [1], and compare and contrast with SSC's "Summary" section. Additionally, I should add that the introduction part of that article sounds like a failed attempt to describe a complex disorder to laymen. Part of it are not correct. Psychiatrists are not infallible. I can go at length addressing which parts you shouldn't take, but let's say, the take-away from that article is in the summary, and please read what I have to say about it, and see how it compares with your experience of stimulants being taken by non-afflicted people. [1] On Adderall: https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication [2] All posts: https://romankogan.net/adhd/ https://romankogan.net/adhd/ ---- TL;DR: Adderall helps me calm down, helps me switch between tasks (i.e. break focus), and helps me fall asleep when I go to bed. This is not how it works for neurotypical people. If this is how it works for you, perhaps get yourself assessed for ADHD.
- hirvi74 5y ago
  Any sources for your claims, I've read the opposite? > Many double blind studies over the past 40 years have uniformly agreed that stimulants such as methylphenidate, dextro-amphetamine, as well as other substances, are very effective in the treatment of 70%–80% of children and adults with ADHD. One of the myths of ADHD is that ADHD children show a paradoxical effect of being calmed by stimulants, while “normal” individuals are stimulated by them. However, studies have shown that the activity levels are decreased and attention levels are increased by stimulants in individuals with and without ADHD. The difference is that since the levels of hyperactivity and inattention are much higher in ADHD subjects, the improvement is relatively much greater, giving the impression that they respond, while non-ADHD subjects do not. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC2626918/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC2626918/ I also have ADHD, and I feel like the medication benefits are vastly overstated. To use an analogy, I was lead to believe that the medication is as effective as opioids for severe pain, but my experiences have been about as effective as Ibuprofen for severe pain. I've tried many different formulations, brands, drug classes -- many of which multiple times at multiple dosages, and I don't feel "magical" yet. I still take some meds because they're better than nothing, but I am starting to wonder if people are just being overly hyperbolic, and I had too great of expectations.
  - romwell 5y ago
    Medication doesn't have the same effect for everyone. I was lucky in the way it worked for me, perhaps. The point is, just experiencing this month of calm and ability to do things helped me overcome a lifetime of learned helplessness. I am more effective now without Adderall than I was before I've had it, simply because I can catch myself getting into the brain fog and using e.g. the help of my partner to break out of it. Speaking of Ibuprofen, it feels like magic to me too. I've had 100+ degree fever from COVID booster, my whole body was aching, I felt cold, but putting my socks on (which I had in my hands felt like an immense chore). Ibuprofen cleared that within an hour. Was it "severe" pain? Let's say, I've had worse. But Ibuprofen took me from 100% non-functioning to mostly-functioning. Magic. In any case, I feel like what you wrote does not contradict what I said. Let's use glasses as an analogy. Arguably, prescription glasses can be used by people with good vision either to resolve finer print, or to resolve text much further away. The laws of optics work the same for them. However, we would say that the effect of wearing glasses is drastically different for people who need a strong prescription vs. people who do not. As they say, size (of the effect) matters. >The difference is that since the levels of hyperactivity and inattention are much higher in ADHD subjects, the improvement is relatively much greater, giving the impression that they respond, while non-ADHD subjects do not. It's like saying that giving food to someone who's starving is the same as to someone who's eating well. The effect is the same, the response is different. Those who don't live in constant brain fog don't really get to feel how Adderall helps with that. Anyway, my personal experience with Adderall is written up here: https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication I'll be glad to look to sources to back up my claims (or stand corrected and learn); but can you help me out and say what it is that you want references for? I struggled to understand where we're disagreeing, though we'd perhaps use different words to talk about the same thing.
- tgaj 5y ago
  To be honest he is somehow right. It's magic for everyone but for people with ADHD (like me or you) it gets us to the level of normal people. For normal people is giving them nearly superhuman focus. I don't think the theory that stimulants are working somehow very different for us than for normal people is valid. But that of course is my opinion.