4 ms·

I am done with this mindset. It is useless brow furrowing and knicker bunching that traps you in an endless doom cycle. One of the few things that still works

I am done with this mindset. It is useless brow furrowing and knicker bunching that traps you in an endless doom cycle. One of the few things that still works about capitalism is you make an expensive toy, it catches on, and then it gets cost reduced ruthlessly to the point that almost anyone can afford it. See flat screen TVs and cell phones for two compelling examples of this phenomenon. See Corsi boxes for an example of how to build cheap alternatives to an expensive thing. In Beijing, they got as cheap as buying a $25 fan and strapping a HEPA filter to it in order to filter out small particles. The outlook that nothing ever gets better and there's nothing we can do about it because the rich control everything is what will get us all killed. The rich will make money where they can even if they have to make it up with volume.

klyrs 5y ago
Has capitalism made iPhones cheap enough for the folks working in iPhone factories to afford them? Can the bean pickers working coffee plantations afford Starbucks? Is there zero wealth gap between people who shop at Walmart and the people who make the cheap crap that gets sold at Walmart? No, no, and no. Capitalism does not fix this. Capitalism exploits this and forwards the profits to the executives and shareholders.
- varelse 5y ago
  Have you ever been to East Asia? They don't have the latest iPhones but they have a better cell phone network than the United States and cheap Android phones from which they do just about everything. You'll get four bars in the middle of nowhere compared to the United States spotty coverage concentrated on population centers. But pay no attention to geopolitical competitors, what could they possibly know that we don't? Or if you call capitalism a failure because only rich people can afford MacLarens, you're just being disingenuous. See also cheap perfectly serviceable 60" flat screen TVs versus a 85" Samsung Goliath. I don't want a society with zero wealth gap. They tried that during the cultural revolution and it sucked every bit as badly as the libertarian dystopia Peter Thiel wants to make happen. We have a really serious inequality problem with fairly simple answers that are politically infeasible until we federalize all campaign funding.
  - klyrs 5y ago
    > I don't want a society with zero wealth gap. They tried that during the cultural revolution and it sucked every bit as badly as the libertarian dystopia Peter Thiel wants to make happen. No, they didn't. That was the story the masses were sold, but power and wealth were a function of the hierarchy rooted at Mao Zedong. But also, I don't believe that zero wealth gap is a reasonable goal, so kindly lay off the strawman. Nordic countries show that there is a lot of room for improvement in terms of inequality, without a blush of the totalitarianism that you fear.
    - varelse 5y ago
      Yes, that's exactly what happens when you try to create a zero wealth gap - people cheat. You are the one that brought up the zero wealth gap with "Is there zero wealth gap between people who shop at Walmart and the people who make the cheap crap that gets sold at Walmart", not me. So if you don't want to be contradicted on a subject, try not mentioning it in the first place, pro-tip even. And libertarianism is just institutionalized cheating for all. Same result as communism in the long run - a tiny ruling class and a world full of peasants where it's good to be the king. I'll take neither. But I'd love socialized healthcare, medicare for all even. Spoilers: a country infested with a bunch of temporarily embarrassed millionaires will never let that happen. And even in a global pandemic, if you don't get private money out of campaign financing, you'll never get a shot at convincing those temporarily embarrassed millionaires of anything else. But by all means, you be you.
      - netizen-936824 5y ago
        What? People cheat in america constantly. Wasn't there a whole ton of fraud recently when it came to unemployment and the small business loans? People cheated for billions, capitalism definitely doesn't prevent thag
        varelse 5y ago
        Yes, people cheat* because they are selfish, and any economic system has to take that into account which is where communism and libertarianism fall apart. But I thought we were talking about how if we have to wear stillsuits in the future, no one will be able to afford stillsuits except the rich despite the historical evidence 100% to the contrary. The rich will get them first though, designer stillsuits even, deal with it. Can't have everything. *But if you had any idea how many weird tricks the $100M+ class employs to avoid paying taxes, 100% legally ATM because our 2500+ page WTF tax code, you'd probably want to storm the Capitol again (or maybe not because you might have convinced yourself those weird tricks might come in handy some even though they probably won't).
- AA-BA-94-2A-56 5y ago
  > Has capitalism made iPhones cheap enough for the folks working in iPhone factories to afford them? Yes, they're called Android phones.
- refurb 5y ago
  False. Come to China or Vietnam and see how everyone has a nice phone. Not an iPhone, but not everyone in the US has an iPhone. Why can they afford it? Capitalism. Don’t forget they tried the alternative and it failed.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Capitalism. Don’t forget they tried the alternative and it failed. There isn't just one alternative to capitalism, and Leninist state capitalism isn't really an alternative to capitalism.

klyrs 5y ago

Has capitalism made iPhones cheap enough for the folks working in iPhone factories to afford them? Can the bean pickers working coffee plantations afford Starbucks? Is there zero wealth gap between people who shop at Walmart and the people who make the cheap crap that gets sold at Walmart? No, no, and no. Capitalism does not fix this. Capitalism exploits this and forwards the profits to the executives and shareholders.

varelse 5y ago
Have you ever been to East Asia? They don't have the latest iPhones but they have a better cell phone network than the United States and cheap Android phones from which they do just about everything. You'll get four bars in the middle of nowhere compared to the United States spotty coverage concentrated on population centers. But pay no attention to geopolitical competitors, what could they possibly know that we don't? Or if you call capitalism a failure because only rich people can afford MacLarens, you're just being disingenuous. See also cheap perfectly serviceable 60" flat screen TVs versus a 85" Samsung Goliath. I don't want a society with zero wealth gap. They tried that during the cultural revolution and it sucked every bit as badly as the libertarian dystopia Peter Thiel wants to make happen. We have a really serious inequality problem with fairly simple answers that are politically infeasible until we federalize all campaign funding.
- klyrs 5y ago
  > I don't want a society with zero wealth gap. They tried that during the cultural revolution and it sucked every bit as badly as the libertarian dystopia Peter Thiel wants to make happen. No, they didn't. That was the story the masses were sold, but power and wealth were a function of the hierarchy rooted at Mao Zedong. But also, I don't believe that zero wealth gap is a reasonable goal, so kindly lay off the strawman. Nordic countries show that there is a lot of room for improvement in terms of inequality, without a blush of the totalitarianism that you fear.
  - varelse 5y ago
    Yes, that's exactly what happens when you try to create a zero wealth gap - people cheat. You are the one that brought up the zero wealth gap with "Is there zero wealth gap between people who shop at Walmart and the people who make the cheap crap that gets sold at Walmart", not me. So if you don't want to be contradicted on a subject, try not mentioning it in the first place, pro-tip even. And libertarianism is just institutionalized cheating for all. Same result as communism in the long run - a tiny ruling class and a world full of peasants where it's good to be the king. I'll take neither. But I'd love socialized healthcare, medicare for all even. Spoilers: a country infested with a bunch of temporarily embarrassed millionaires will never let that happen. And even in a global pandemic, if you don't get private money out of campaign financing, you'll never get a shot at convincing those temporarily embarrassed millionaires of anything else. But by all means, you be you.
    - netizen-936824 5y ago
      What? People cheat in america constantly. Wasn't there a whole ton of fraud recently when it came to unemployment and the small business loans? People cheated for billions, capitalism definitely doesn't prevent thag
      - varelse 5y ago
        Yes, people cheat* because they are selfish, and any economic system has to take that into account which is where communism and libertarianism fall apart. But I thought we were talking about how if we have to wear stillsuits in the future, no one will be able to afford stillsuits except the rich despite the historical evidence 100% to the contrary. The rich will get them first though, designer stillsuits even, deal with it. Can't have everything. *But if you had any idea how many weird tricks the $100M+ class employs to avoid paying taxes, 100% legally ATM because our 2500+ page WTF tax code, you'd probably want to storm the Capitol again (or maybe not because you might have convinced yourself those weird tricks might come in handy some even though they probably won't).
AA-BA-94-2A-56 5y ago
> Has capitalism made iPhones cheap enough for the folks working in iPhone factories to afford them? Yes, they're called Android phones.
refurb 5y ago
False. Come to China or Vietnam and see how everyone has a nice phone. Not an iPhone, but not everyone in the US has an iPhone. Why can they afford it? Capitalism. Don’t forget they tried the alternative and it failed.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Capitalism. Don’t forget they tried the alternative and it failed. There isn't just one alternative to capitalism, and Leninist state capitalism isn't really an alternative to capitalism.