4 ms·

Just want to point out - one can have symptoms of a disorder that don't rise to the level of a disorder. I have what OP describes like crazy, I beat myself up

by 300bps 5y ago

Just want to point out - one can have symptoms of a disorder that don't rise to the level of a disorder. I have what OP describes like crazy, I beat myself up over it frequently and think I need to do better. Yet somehow I keep getting glowing reviews at work and even just got promoted without asking. So don't automatically think, "omg I do that too! I need medication." Start to worry if it has a substantial negative impact on your life.

wombat-man 5y ago
Yeah, I deal with a lot of the listed symptoms. But I've never been diagnosed and I seem to be a fairly functional person.
- zhynn 5y ago
  It took me until I was 45 to finally get screened. I really wish I had done it sooner, it is not that rough. But I said the exact same thing when I bumped into this notion. I was quite resistant to the idea, which is itself a fascinating mental knot to untie.
  - 300bps 5y ago
    What has changed for you since being screened?
    - zhynn 5y ago
      Primarily: medication Secondarily: being able to have a short hand category for looking up strategies to handle my own challenges and finding a sympathetic community of people with eerily similar challenges. The medication has been surprising. I have all my life thought that I had anxiety. So I did various compensating behaviors to manage the anxiety. I now know that I was anxious because of my ADHD behaviors, and addressing the anxiety made things tolerable, but didn't really deal with the underlying problem. I am a curious person. I will hyper-focus on rabbit holes, which is a super power when you are hooked on a relevant problem. But if I should be doing work, but I am hyper focused on something interesting but irrelevant (like, for example, the history and usage of the Shopsmith woodworking multi-tool), it creates anxiety because I should be working. The drugs are helping me control my focus better, which is something I have never been able to do. I just had to ride the current before, but now I feel like I have some control of the current. It's not perfect, I am still sorting things out, I have only been on this path for a few months. I think that "ADHD" is poorly named, because I don't think of my hyper-focus as "hyperactivity". And I don't really think I have "Attention Deficit", so much as difficulty controlling where my attention is directed.
      - 300bps 5y ago
        Thank you for the interesting perspective! You and I sound fairly similar in terms of symptoms. For the anxiety I went with a book that someone recommended to me on HN called, "Learned Optimism". I went from having moderate to severe anxiety for decades to pretty much zero. It's work, but was tremendously worth it. I have spent time on solving procrastination with less success. Most notable was reading, "Solving the Procrastination Puzzle". For me the most successful technique is "Just get started". I think I have two issues that cause me to not start on things: 1) before it's started, it's a perfect little idea. after starting, it leads to imperfect compromises to get it done. 2) I fear it will be harder than it actually is. "Just get started" pushes through both of these for me.
Mezzie 5y ago
It also can NOT be ADHD but can be executive dysfunction. Important because things like anxiety can also cause these issues, and generally stimulants aren't a great idea for anxious people. (Unless the anxiety IS caused by ADHD... humans are weird.)
smoothpotato4 5y ago
Doing well at work is not an indication that you don’t have ADHD. Plenty of people with ADHD are perfectionists and overachievers, even those without medication. “Having a negative impact on your life” can be about more than just whether you perform well at work, it can be about how you feel about yourself and how you take care of yourself. I agree, medication is not always the answer. But that doesn’t mean it’s not worthwhile to learn more about ADHD for those who have symptoms. Just understanding more about ADHD can help people develop coping habits to work with their brains instead of against them.
- 300bps 5y ago
  Doing well at work is not an indication that you don’t have ADHD. Of course it is. Maybe if you changed "indication" to "guarantee" I would agree with you but as it is that sentence is objectively wrong. And of course there are other factors. I've definitely had symptoms of ADHD my entire life but once again that doesn't mean it rises to the level of a diagnosable disorder.
  - avianlyric 5y ago
    No that statement just isn’t true. ADHD in high IQ individuals frequently creates high performing individuals with very low self-esteem. They succeed in complex environments tackling difficult problems, but still struggle to perform basic everyday chores. High performance at work, but consistently poor performance in other aspects of life is an indicator of possible ADHD. https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/psychiatry-and-sleep/202110/high-functioning-adhd-is-often-subtle-still-mountain?amp https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/psychiatry-and-sleep...
  - romwell 5y ago
    >>Doing well at work is not an indication that you don’t have ADHD. >Of course it is. Maybe if you changed "indication" to "guarantee" I would agree with you but as it is that sentence is objectively wrong. I'm sorry, but you are straight up spreading harmful falsehoods now. Please stop. You clearly don't have the credentials/education, nor any sources to back your claims up. (Signed, ADHD/math PhD/ex-Google/ex-Microsoft/etc)
romwell 5y ago
>I have what OP describes like crazy, I beat myself up over it frequently and think I need to do better. Yet somehow I keep getting glowing reviews at work and even just got promoted without asking. Hey, I have a PhD in mathematics, work experience in Microsoft and Google (among others), glowing reviews and all. And you know what would have been great? Getting treatment in high school, so that getting here would have been a much more peaceful process, without so much pain, beating myself up, and being chronically depressed because of it. Professional success is not the only metric in life. Beating oneself up endlessly can get to you too. Understanding how my brain works allows me to live a happier life. >So don't automatically think, "omg I do that too! I need medication." Start to worry if it has a substantial negative impact on your life. Well, of course. And medication doesn't work for everyone (does nothing for about 20% of people, IIRC, and many others don't enjoy the side effects). There are, however, many other things that do help - from lifestyle changes to body doubling. For me, these little things had an immense impact on my well-being: * It's OK to have 4 pairs of scissors to keep them where I use them instead of looking for them each time. Minimalism is not ADHD-friendly. * It's also OK to have cabinets full of hobby supplies that I come back to once every few years. "If you don't use it for 3 years, throw it out" is not how ADHD works. Time is a dark matter for ADHD folks. * I can't reliably estimate time, especially the time it takes me to do things. I can improve my estimates by asking other people to estimate time. If it's important, I should trust judgement of other people when it comes to time, even if my brain tells me that surely, it's feasible to do X things in Y time. * I will not remember where my phone is, and it's OK. I can keep Google Home Hub, and tell it to find my phone. As long as it has power, it will ring. * For that matter, the best phone for me is the one with immense battery life (currently, Moto G Power with its 3-day battery, but I'll gladly take a 7-day brick). Because I will forget to charge it every day, and it will be nothing more than a silicon slab when I need it the most otherwise. * It's OK to buy a gadget/tool/thing just to perform a task, because it adds novelty. Consumerism be damned, I can give things away on Craigslist and make someone's day - or I can acquire a hobby. I bought a bullet smoker on sale last week on a whim, and now have five pounds of smoked fish in my fridge (OK, that might have been an overkill). I bought a slow cooker, a toaster oven, an air fryer, an instant pot, and a cast iron skillet to make cooking more fun - all of them get used a lot. * It's OK to temporarily lose interest in a hobby I'm passionate for. It doesn't indicate a lack of passion of interest. It's just ADHD. * To do a boring/tedious task, I need to do a fun thing first, and then ride that momentum to victory. "Rewarding" myself with a fun activity for completing a tedious/productive one simply doesn't work: I neither complete the task, nor get to do the "reward" activity. The ideal way is to incorporate the reward into doing: cooking, but getting to use a new implement. Coding, but only using list comprehensions instead of loops. Being on a lookout for something novel to island-hop from task to task without strain. * I am not effective in open-floor layouts sitting next to colleagues, but very productive in a library/coworking environments. People that work on the same thing (especially if we bond over it) are a distraction, and added guilt when I'm not productive. People working alongside me add accountability without judgement, and enhance my productivity. That's called body doubling, and it works even if it's over Zoom (as long as people don't talk to each other). There are Discord study groups, and Zoom sessions at https://adhdactually.com https://adhdactually.com that facilitate that. * My storage cabinets either have transparent doors, or no doors at all (IKEA Kallax cube organizers); when using cube organizers, transparent containers are the best. It's optimal for my brain, even if it doesn't look best to some. * I often need to stay up late, later than everyone else in the house, and it's OK. I stopped forcing myself to go to bed early when I don't feel like sleeping. The AM hours after everyone has gone to bed have a valuable peacefulness to them, where I can focus on things that I might not get to do otherwise. * If I feel an urge to do the Boring But Necessary Thing, I act on it immediately, even if it's disrupting the plans or is at an unusual time. Cleaning at 2AM? Cooking at midnight? Mailing that package when I was planning to clean? Whatever, I need to ride that wave, because who knows when it'll come next. And so on, and so on. ADHD lifehacks are different than neurotypical lifehacks. Just being aware that they exist helps a ton.

by 300bps 5y ago

wombat-man 5y ago

Yeah, I deal with a lot of the listed symptoms. But I've never been diagnosed and I seem to be a fairly functional person.

zhynn 5y ago
It took me until I was 45 to finally get screened. I really wish I had done it sooner, it is not that rough. But I said the exact same thing when I bumped into this notion. I was quite resistant to the idea, which is itself a fascinating mental knot to untie.
- 300bps 5y ago
  What has changed for you since being screened?
  - zhynn 5y ago
    Primarily: medication Secondarily: being able to have a short hand category for looking up strategies to handle my own challenges and finding a sympathetic community of people with eerily similar challenges. The medication has been surprising. I have all my life thought that I had anxiety. So I did various compensating behaviors to manage the anxiety. I now know that I was anxious because of my ADHD behaviors, and addressing the anxiety made things tolerable, but didn't really deal with the underlying problem. I am a curious person. I will hyper-focus on rabbit holes, which is a super power when you are hooked on a relevant problem. But if I should be doing work, but I am hyper focused on something interesting but irrelevant (like, for example, the history and usage of the Shopsmith woodworking multi-tool), it creates anxiety because I should be working. The drugs are helping me control my focus better, which is something I have never been able to do. I just had to ride the current before, but now I feel like I have some control of the current. It's not perfect, I am still sorting things out, I have only been on this path for a few months. I think that "ADHD" is poorly named, because I don't think of my hyper-focus as "hyperactivity". And I don't really think I have "Attention Deficit", so much as difficulty controlling where my attention is directed.
    - 300bps 5y ago
      Thank you for the interesting perspective! You and I sound fairly similar in terms of symptoms. For the anxiety I went with a book that someone recommended to me on HN called, "Learned Optimism". I went from having moderate to severe anxiety for decades to pretty much zero. It's work, but was tremendously worth it. I have spent time on solving procrastination with less success. Most notable was reading, "Solving the Procrastination Puzzle". For me the most successful technique is "Just get started". I think I have two issues that cause me to not start on things: 1) before it's started, it's a perfect little idea. after starting, it leads to imperfect compromises to get it done. 2) I fear it will be harder than it actually is. "Just get started" pushes through both of these for me.

Mezzie 5y ago

It also can NOT be ADHD but can be executive dysfunction. Important because things like anxiety can also cause these issues, and generally stimulants aren't a great idea for anxious people. (Unless the anxiety IS caused by ADHD... humans are weird.)

smoothpotato4 5y ago

Doing well at work is not an indication that you don’t have ADHD. Plenty of people with ADHD are perfectionists and overachievers, even those without medication. “Having a negative impact on your life” can be about more than just whether you perform well at work, it can be about how you feel about yourself and how you take care of yourself. I agree, medication is not always the answer. But that doesn’t mean it’s not worthwhile to learn more about ADHD for those who have symptoms. Just understanding more about ADHD can help people develop coping habits to work with their brains instead of against them.

300bps 5y ago
Doing well at work is not an indication that you don’t have ADHD. Of course it is. Maybe if you changed "indication" to "guarantee" I would agree with you but as it is that sentence is objectively wrong. And of course there are other factors. I've definitely had symptoms of ADHD my entire life but once again that doesn't mean it rises to the level of a diagnosable disorder.
- avianlyric 5y ago
  No that statement just isn’t true. ADHD in high IQ individuals frequently creates high performing individuals with very low self-esteem. They succeed in complex environments tackling difficult problems, but still struggle to perform basic everyday chores. High performance at work, but consistently poor performance in other aspects of life is an indicator of possible ADHD. https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/psychiatry-and-sleep/202110/high-functioning-adhd-is-often-subtle-still-mountain?amp https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/psychiatry-and-sleep...
- romwell 5y ago
  >>Doing well at work is not an indication that you don’t have ADHD. >Of course it is. Maybe if you changed "indication" to "guarantee" I would agree with you but as it is that sentence is objectively wrong. I'm sorry, but you are straight up spreading harmful falsehoods now. Please stop. You clearly don't have the credentials/education, nor any sources to back your claims up. (Signed, ADHD/math PhD/ex-Google/ex-Microsoft/etc)

romwell 5y ago

>I have what OP describes like crazy, I beat myself up over it frequently and think I need to do better. Yet somehow I keep getting glowing reviews at work and even just got promoted without asking. Hey, I have a PhD in mathematics, work experience in Microsoft and Google (among others), glowing reviews and all. And you know what would have been great? Getting treatment in high school, so that getting here would have been a much more peaceful process, without so much pain, beating myself up, and being chronically depressed because of it. Professional success is not the only metric in life. Beating oneself up endlessly can get to you too. Understanding how my brain works allows me to live a happier life. >So don't automatically think, "omg I do that too! I need medication." Start to worry if it has a substantial negative impact on your life. Well, of course. And medication doesn't work for everyone (does nothing for about 20% of people, IIRC, and many others don't enjoy the side effects). There are, however, many other things that do help - from lifestyle changes to body doubling. For me, these little things had an immense impact on my well-being: * It's OK to have 4 pairs of scissors to keep them where I use them instead of looking for them each time. Minimalism is not ADHD-friendly. * It's also OK to have cabinets full of hobby supplies that I come back to once every few years. "If you don't use it for 3 years, throw it out" is not how ADHD works. Time is a dark matter for ADHD folks. * I can't reliably estimate time, especially the time it takes me to do things. I can improve my estimates by asking other people to estimate time. If it's important, I should trust judgement of other people when it comes to time, even if my brain tells me that surely, it's feasible to do X things in Y time. * I will not remember where my phone is, and it's OK. I can keep Google Home Hub, and tell it to find my phone. As long as it has power, it will ring. * For that matter, the best phone for me is the one with immense battery life (currently, Moto G Power with its 3-day battery, but I'll gladly take a 7-day brick). Because I will forget to charge it every day, and it will be nothing more than a silicon slab when I need it the most otherwise. * It's OK to buy a gadget/tool/thing just to perform a task, because it adds novelty. Consumerism be damned, I can give things away on Craigslist and make someone's day - or I can acquire a hobby. I bought a bullet smoker on sale last week on a whim, and now have five pounds of smoked fish in my fridge (OK, that might have been an overkill). I bought a slow cooker, a toaster oven, an air fryer, an instant pot, and a cast iron skillet to make cooking more fun - all of them get used a lot. * It's OK to temporarily lose interest in a hobby I'm passionate for. It doesn't indicate a lack of passion of interest. It's just ADHD. * To do a boring/tedious task, I need to do a fun thing first, and then ride that momentum to victory. "Rewarding" myself with a fun activity for completing a tedious/productive one simply doesn't work: I neither complete the task, nor get to do the "reward" activity. The ideal way is to incorporate the reward into doing: cooking, but getting to use a new implement. Coding, but only using list comprehensions instead of loops. Being on a lookout for something novel to island-hop from task to task without strain. * I am not effective in open-floor layouts sitting next to colleagues, but very productive in a library/coworking environments. People that work on the same thing (especially if we bond over it) are a distraction, and added guilt when I'm not productive. People working alongside me add accountability without judgement, and enhance my productivity. That's called body doubling, and it works even if it's over Zoom (as long as people don't talk to each other). There are Discord study groups, and Zoom sessions at https://adhdactually.com https://adhdactually.com that facilitate that. * My storage cabinets either have transparent doors, or no doors at all (IKEA Kallax cube organizers); when using cube organizers, transparent containers are the best. It's optimal for my brain, even if it doesn't look best to some. * I often need to stay up late, later than everyone else in the house, and it's OK. I stopped forcing myself to go to bed early when I don't feel like sleeping. The AM hours after everyone has gone to bed have a valuable peacefulness to them, where I can focus on things that I might not get to do otherwise. * If I feel an urge to do the Boring But Necessary Thing, I act on it immediately, even if it's disrupting the plans or is at an unusual time. Cleaning at 2AM? Cooking at midnight? Mailing that package when I was planning to clean? Whatever, I need to ride that wave, because who knows when it'll come next. And so on, and so on. ADHD lifehacks are different than neurotypical lifehacks. Just being aware that they exist helps a ton.