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I feel that Vim is already sort of a prank in itself. One minute you're happily source controlling away in Git and the next you're stuck in some arcane console

I feel that Vim is already sort of a prank in itself. One minute you're happily source controlling away in Git and the next you're stuck in some arcane console app.

nerdponx 5y ago
As an experienced Vim user, I will never understand why some systems include Vi/Vim by default and set it as the default editor, instead of Nano. It does indeed seem like a prank.
- nocman 5y ago
  As an experienced vim user, I find vim to be superior to nano in pretty much every important way, and am glad it is set as the default editor. In my opinion, setting nano to the default editor would seem like a prank. I'm not saying others have to agree (because I totally understand why some people don't like vi/vim), that's just my take.
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    Don't you feel that a default anything should be easy to use and intuitive? I don't think anyone who ever first came across Vim could even figure out how to quit, let alone do anything useful. Seems to disqualify it as a useful default editor, don't you think?
    - nocman 5y ago
      > Don't you feel that a default anything should be easy to use and intuitive? No, I don't. (only slightly sarcastic) More accurately, I don't think "ease of use" and being intuitive to a newcomer are the only possible primary motivations for making any tool the 'default' tool of its type. vi/vim have a long legacy of usage on Linux and other Unix and Unix-like operating systems. They have a steep initial learning curve which requires some commitment on the part of the user to get past, and because of that I understand why some people don't like them. However, in my opinion, even today it is worthwhile for users of these kinds of systems to invest in learning how to use them. I'm not saying you need to become an expert, I just think if you work on Linux, a minimum amount of fluency will be worth your while (especially when dealing with any kind of system administration - even if it is only on your own desktop Linux machine). Knowing enough to get basic editing tasks done could very well save your bacon in a pinch when things break. There are plenty of resources on the internet describing the advantages of vim, so I'm not going to try to summarize them here. That being said, I know some people would prefer something like nano to be their default editor, because they don't want to invest the time in learning vim and/or are not convinced that doing so would be advantageous to them. I would not be opposed to having the Linux install process for any distro ask the person doing the install what they want their default editor to be. But I would still argue that vim is a good choice for the 'default default editor' in that case. Naturally, you can always set the EDITOR environment variable yourself so that tools like git bring up the editor you want. Your editor of choice would then be the 'default' in one sense, but I believe you are arguing for 'default' at a higher level than that. > I don't think anyone who ever first came across Vim could even figure out how to quit, let alone do anything useful. Seems to disqualify it as a useful default editor, don't you think? It should be obvious by my above comments that I would say 'no', it doesn't disqualify it, but that's due to differing views on what properties should be used to determine what the default editor should be. (I apologize for the late reply, I know this is a couple days old now, but I didn't see the response till now.)
      - Grustaf 5y ago
        That philosophy might make sense on enthusiast Linux distros, but not on macOS, or some pragmatic Linux flavour.
Liquid_Fire 5y ago
Doesn't git just use whatever your EDITOR is by default? So either it's your own fault for configuring it to vim, or your distro for having such a newbie-unfriendly editor as the default.
- johnhenry 5y ago
  https://stackoverflow.com/questions/30024353/how-to-use-visual-studio-code-as-default-editor-for-git https://stackoverflow.com/questions/30024353/how-to-use-visu...
- Grustaf 5y ago
  My "distro" is MacOS... I'm sure there's a way to change the default, but now I don't have to google "how to quit vim" that often anymore, so I haven't bothered.
scelerat 5y ago
In case it needs to be said... you can count on vi being installed on almost any unixy distribution, which is not true of nano, pico, emacs or other common visual editors. On many contemporary systems, 'vi' is an alias for 'vim' and there you go. You can change the editor Git uses by editing git configuration or setting the shell variables $VISUAL or $EDITOR [1] e.g. EDITOR="bbedit --wait --resume" git rebase -i 5f882cfdec^ [1] https://git-scm.com/book/ms/v2/Customizing-Git-Git-Configuration https://git-scm.com/book/ms/v2/Customizing-Git-Git-Configura...
- int_19h 5y ago
  Arcane and obsolete Unix systems aside - which the vast majority of users don't have to care about, or even know that they exist - what modern Unix-like does not include nano out of the box?
  - scelerat 5y ago
    Can't answer that myself, but because vi is part of the POSIX standard, the Git folks don't have to worry about it either.
jtms 5y ago
many would argue git is also an "arcane console app". many would also argue they are two of the best tools in all of software development.
- bagacrap 5y ago
  agreed. I use git every day and I still have to Google how to do anything that I haven't done in the last week, which is probably 98% of the total number of commands.
  - Grustaf 5y ago
    I took the plunge and got Fork, a Git UI, a few weeks ago. It's actually starting to make sense now. Sort of.

I feel that Vim is already sort of a prank in itself. One minute you're happily source controlling away in Git and the next you're stuck in some arcane console app.

nerdponx 5y ago

As an experienced Vim user, I will never understand why some systems include Vi/Vim by default and set it as the default editor, instead of Nano. It does indeed seem like a prank.

nocman 5y ago
As an experienced vim user, I find vim to be superior to nano in pretty much every important way, and am glad it is set as the default editor. In my opinion, setting nano to the default editor would seem like a prank. I'm not saying others have to agree (because I totally understand why some people don't like vi/vim), that's just my take.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  Don't you feel that a default anything should be easy to use and intuitive? I don't think anyone who ever first came across Vim could even figure out how to quit, let alone do anything useful. Seems to disqualify it as a useful default editor, don't you think?
  - nocman 5y ago
    > Don't you feel that a default anything should be easy to use and intuitive? No, I don't. (only slightly sarcastic) More accurately, I don't think "ease of use" and being intuitive to a newcomer are the only possible primary motivations for making any tool the 'default' tool of its type. vi/vim have a long legacy of usage on Linux and other Unix and Unix-like operating systems. They have a steep initial learning curve which requires some commitment on the part of the user to get past, and because of that I understand why some people don't like them. However, in my opinion, even today it is worthwhile for users of these kinds of systems to invest in learning how to use them. I'm not saying you need to become an expert, I just think if you work on Linux, a minimum amount of fluency will be worth your while (especially when dealing with any kind of system administration - even if it is only on your own desktop Linux machine). Knowing enough to get basic editing tasks done could very well save your bacon in a pinch when things break. There are plenty of resources on the internet describing the advantages of vim, so I'm not going to try to summarize them here. That being said, I know some people would prefer something like nano to be their default editor, because they don't want to invest the time in learning vim and/or are not convinced that doing so would be advantageous to them. I would not be opposed to having the Linux install process for any distro ask the person doing the install what they want their default editor to be. But I would still argue that vim is a good choice for the 'default default editor' in that case. Naturally, you can always set the EDITOR environment variable yourself so that tools like git bring up the editor you want. Your editor of choice would then be the 'default' in one sense, but I believe you are arguing for 'default' at a higher level than that. > I don't think anyone who ever first came across Vim could even figure out how to quit, let alone do anything useful. Seems to disqualify it as a useful default editor, don't you think? It should be obvious by my above comments that I would say 'no', it doesn't disqualify it, but that's due to differing views on what properties should be used to determine what the default editor should be. (I apologize for the late reply, I know this is a couple days old now, but I didn't see the response till now.)
    - Grustaf 5y ago
      That philosophy might make sense on enthusiast Linux distros, but not on macOS, or some pragmatic Linux flavour.

Liquid_Fire 5y ago

Doesn't git just use whatever your EDITOR is by default? So either it's your own fault for configuring it to vim, or your distro for having such a newbie-unfriendly editor as the default.

johnhenry 5y ago
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/30024353/how-to-use-visual-studio-code-as-default-editor-for-git https://stackoverflow.com/questions/30024353/how-to-use-visu...
Grustaf 5y ago
My "distro" is MacOS... I'm sure there's a way to change the default, but now I don't have to google "how to quit vim" that often anymore, so I haven't bothered.

scelerat 5y ago

In case it needs to be said... you can count on vi being installed on almost any unixy distribution, which is not true of nano, pico, emacs or other common visual editors. On many contemporary systems, 'vi' is an alias for 'vim' and there you go. You can change the editor Git uses by editing git configuration or setting the shell variables $VISUAL or $EDITOR [1] e.g. EDITOR="bbedit --wait --resume" git rebase -i 5f882cfdec^ [1] https://git-scm.com/book/ms/v2/Customizing-Git-Git-Configuration https://git-scm.com/book/ms/v2/Customizing-Git-Git-Configura...

int_19h 5y ago
Arcane and obsolete Unix systems aside - which the vast majority of users don't have to care about, or even know that they exist - what modern Unix-like does not include nano out of the box?
- scelerat 5y ago
  Can't answer that myself, but because vi is part of the POSIX standard, the Git folks don't have to worry about it either.

jtms 5y ago

many would argue git is also an "arcane console app". many would also argue they are two of the best tools in all of software development.

bagacrap 5y ago
agreed. I use git every day and I still have to Google how to do anything that I haven't done in the last week, which is probably 98% of the total number of commands.
- Grustaf 5y ago
  I took the plunge and got Fork, a Git UI, a few weeks ago. It's actually starting to make sense now. Sort of.