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>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between. To anyone relati
by romwell 5y ago
>I do tasks on three timescales: they either get done immediately, after a shamefully massive delay, or not at all. There’s little in-between.
To anyone relating: that's an ADHD symptom.
It falls under the umbrella of Executive Dysfunction[1].
I have been beating myself up for it all my life, and turns out there are many things that work differently for people with ADHD - and many things that help (from medication[2] to social techniques, like body doubling[3]).
Here's how ADHD looks for me: https://romankogan.net/adhd/ https://romankogan.net/adhd/ -- if you find yourself scrolling and nodding, maybe get it checked it out, OK?
[1] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Executive%20Dysfunction https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Executive%20Dysfunction
[2] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Medication
[3] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Body%20Double https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Body%20Double
- hfourm 5y agoGood stuff. I have lived with ADHD as long as I remember. Going on and off prescriptions. Adult ADHD has mostly revolved around depression/mood swing cycles of hyper focus and motivation (new interesting project/work, new job) and procrastination, lack of focus, and depression caused by that feeling of know I should be doing X but not being able to bring myself to. I have some coping techniques and it isn't something I think about all the time. The worst thing about it is that while prescriptions are effective, they are not pleasant and the tolerance you build to them is even worse. I try to balance them (threshold dosages, only using when I really need it) with other techniques.
- cik2e 5y agoThere are supplements that eliminate almost all of the negative side-effects of stims. - L-Tyrosine to keep your dopamine levels up. - ALCAR + ALA to reduce neurotoxicity and tolerance formation - Magnesium and Zinc for muscle tension, including jaw clenching if you're prone to that. And for Aderall, you can take Vitamin C at any point to rapidly flush it out of your system. These things are a game-changer for quality of life and sustainability of stimulant medication. For example, with the ALA+ALCAR stack, I don't get any withdrawals when I take breaks. No fatigue, malaise, nothing. I would have given up on adderall a long time ago without these things.
- fire 5y agoDo you have any recs for where to buy ALA and ALCAR from? Reddit seems to recommend nootropicsdepot which I've honestly never heard of before today.
- omginternets 5y ago> And for Aderall, you can take Vitamin C at any point to rapidly flush it out of your system. Is this legit? If so, that’s incredibly useful information! What’s the mechanism? Re neurotoxicity, I believe you are mistaken that amphetamine salts are toxic. I believe this is the case with meth, but not pharmaceutical stims.
- pbrb 5y agoExactly the same for me. I'm currently in the "I know I should be doing X but not being able to bring myself to" cycle on a piece of a major project. It's not hard work, I know how to do it, but I just cannot do it. I was diagnosed with ADHD as a child, and have avoided the medication my whole life. Recently, I decided to try Adderall. It's like magic to be honest, and has helped tremendously in multiple ways. I can focus on a single task, less pain in getting started on tasks, can actually stay focused, can listen without the draining mental effort to force myself to, and am less forgetful. But for some reason, this one project has put me right back in the same old 'cannot do this' state even with the Adderall.
- randallsquared 5y ago> It's like magic to be honest For nearly everyone, if I understand correctly, ADHD or no.
- omginternets 5y agoIt’ll definitely stimulate everyone, adhd or no, but most people don’t have a brain fog that will be lifted by the meds. Nor do they have a plethora of other symptoms that amphetamine salts alleviate.
- romwell 5y agoYou understand incorrectly, and you are propagating a harmful stereotype (which makes medication harder to obtain for people who need it). Aderall has vastly different effects on people with ADHD vs. the rest. The best I can say is the Adderall makes us feel the way you feel normally. To us, it feels like magic. The ability to switch from a task you're engaged in? The ability to do something that you need to do and want to do - and even enjoy - when you want to do it? Magic. Enjoy the superpowers you never knew you had.
- HighlandSpring 5y ago> Enjoy the superpowers you never knew you had. This so much. I rarely attempt to communicate the experience of ADHD because it's rarely worth the effort but one of the times that I did to a good friend I was met with an affectionate "so you're a bit of a retard" and it's hard to argue otherwise.
- ultra_nick 5y agoExtra points if you beg yourself or a higher power to please let you start the task that "isn't even that hard".
- romwell 5y agoYup. I call them "small tasks"[1]. They're hell. [1] https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Small%20Tasks https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Small%20Tasks
- thoughtpeddler 5y agoI wouldn't so quickly jump to "that's an ADHD symptom". I know many people inarguably not ADHD who exhibit similar task timescales. I don't want to discount the fact that this can be a hallmark symptom of ADHD for those that truly have/are ADHD. However, some part of this reaction is over-pathologization. It's increasingly accepted that ADHD is over-diagnosed [1] [2] [3], and I feel that this task timescale concept accounts for part of that. [1] Overdiagnosis of Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder in Children and Adolescents; https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2778451 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle... [2] Overdiagnosis of mental disorders in children and adolescents (in developed countries); https://capmh.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13034-016-0140-5 https://capmh.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13034-016-... [3] Is Adult Attention-Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder Being Overdiagnosed?; https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC4500182/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/labs/pmc/articles/PMC4500182/
- thom 5y agoI know dozens of people in my life that exhibit most or all of the symptoms described in one of the parent's links, but I wouldn't diagnose them with anything more serious than 'parenthood'.
- Mezzie 5y agoMy executive function fluctuates with my anxiety and stress levels, and it's also well-recorded that poverty/chronic stress do pretty terrible things to executive function. I'd guess that 'being on 24/7 to make sure the little humans don't die' could produce similar results, particularly given the sleep deprivation. Just a constant focus on the 'now' and immediate dangers/issues vs. planning and the future.
- romwell 5y agoThe symptoms I described manifest in absence of any external stress. That's what makes them symptoms. The first question to ask about those is whether they have been present since childhood.
- burkaman 5y ago
- 300bps 5y agoJust want to point out - one can have symptoms of a disorder that don't rise to the level of a disorder. I have what OP describes like crazy, I beat myself up over it frequently and think I need to do better. Yet somehow I keep getting glowing reviews at work and even just got promoted without asking. So don't automatically think, "omg I do that too! I need medication." Start to worry if it has a substantial negative impact on your life.
- wombat-man 5y agoYeah, I deal with a lot of the listed symptoms. But I've never been diagnosed and I seem to be a fairly functional person.
- zhynn 5y agoIt took me until I was 45 to finally get screened. I really wish I had done it sooner, it is not that rough. But I said the exact same thing when I bumped into this notion. I was quite resistant to the idea, which is itself a fascinating mental knot to untie.
- 300bps 5y agoWhat has changed for you since being screened?
- zhynn 5y agoPrimarily: medication Secondarily: being able to have a short hand category for looking up strategies to handle my own challenges and finding a sympathetic community of people with eerily similar challenges. The medication has been surprising. I have all my life thought that I had anxiety. So I did various compensating behaviors to manage the anxiety. I now know that I was anxious because of my ADHD behaviors, and addressing the anxiety made things tolerable, but didn't really deal with the underlying problem. I am a curious person. I will hyper-focus on rabbit holes, which is a super power when you are hooked on a relevant problem. But if I should be doing work, but I am hyper focused on something interesting but irrelevant (like, for example, the history and usage of the Shopsmith woodworking multi-tool), it creates anxiety because I should be working. The drugs are helping me control my focus better, which is something I have never been able to do. I just had to ride the current before, but now I feel like I have some control of the current. It's not perfect, I am still sorting things out, I have only been on this path for a few months. I think that "ADHD" is poorly named, because I don't think of my hyper-focus as "hyperactivity". And I don't really think I have "Attention Deficit", so much as difficulty controlling where my attention is directed.
- InvisibleUp 5y agoHere is another excellent write-up on the struggle that ADHD can be: https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html https://gekk.info/articles/adhd.html
- zhynn 5y agoI was very defensive when my wife said that I should consider being screened for ADHD, I have the exact experience you do (a the OP) around this stuff. The defensiveness was something that I sorted out, and looking back on things, so many of my "vices" were just self-medication for ADHD. They were mostly coping strategies (with the exception of some social vices). My adult diagnosis has been a game changer for me. I know most people don't mean that literally, but I mean that literally. It changed the game.
- slingnow 5y agoSo to mean it literally, it changed some literal game you were playing. What game did it change and how?
- zhynn 5y agoMy game was: - follow my curiosity - take advantage of times when my curiosity and focus aligned with work - manage the anxiety that came as a consequence of focusing on things I shouldn't be. My new game is: - channel my curiosity to solve relevant problems (get distracted sometimes, but not near as much as I used to) - since I am more in control of my own focus, my anxiety is dramatically reduced, so I don't require as aggressive management of it as I used to (binge sessions to decompress, chemicals (alcohol, nicotine), meditation and breath practice. I still do the meditation and breathing, as I like it and feel like it is a net positive, but I don't need it to tame the demons.
- golemiprague 5y ago
- tgaj 5y agoI think is important to add that being able to control someone's focus is a skill that is necessary for everything in life. It's not just about work. It's the whole life - work, education, socialising, even recreation (travelling was a hell for me before stimulants, every minute trying to focus on not lose tickets, money, baggage)
- discardedrefuse 5y agoThanks for this. I have a teen with ADHD currently dealing with executive dysfunction and you really helped me understand what going on in his head.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- adamc 5y agoI don't have ADHD, and I have this issue. I have (or have had -- seems to be in remission at present) issues with depression, which can also result in this.
- alx__ 5y agoIn my experience getting an adult ADHD diagnosis is a long process. Especially if you've never looked into it. After getting lost in the process last year. Re-attempting this year, i'm again stalled as they want my anxiety/depression scores to drop before testing for ADHD. So don't give up, when the system puts up walls. I assume this is due to the potential addiction side-affects for the drugs (stimulants) for non-ADHD folks
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- thevagrant 5y agoYup when i got diagnosed it required investigation into my school records (20 years prior, I got diagnosed as an adult). Looking over my life since childhood, diagnosis is clear cut. I was lucky to have old school reports and letters from teachers. To be honest, it isn't difficult for some. I've heard of others walking in and getting "diagnosed" within 5 minutes. I do think some people getting diagnosed with adhd as adults may instead have depression rather than adhd. Unfortunately they don't want to admit to depression.
- xdfgh1112 5y agoCan confirm. I have a ton of ADHD symptoms but only in the last few years, due to depression rather than ADHD.
- omginternets 5y agoI was recently diagnosed with ADHD. I am 34. Part of what took so long to get this diagnosed is that it is poorly named. I do not have a deficit of attention; in fact, I have extreme sustained attention [0]. If the symptoms described by the parent poster are causing you to suffer, please consider that it might be ADHD, and that ADHD does not necessarily manifest in the way it's name suggests it should. Please also consider that lightweight treatment can drastically improve your quality-of-life. Stimulant therapy has provided immediate relief for me, like flipping a switch [1]. The best part is that I still enjoy the positive aspects of my ability to hyperfocus. Only now, my attention feels like a servant rather than a master. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperfocus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperfocus [1] I have a fairly moderate case of ADHD, so YMMV.
- romwell 5y agoI could've written your comment word-for-word, to the extent that I did a double take and checked to make sure I didn't write it. Personally, I say that ADHD stands for Awfully Described Human Disorder for that exact reason. Many more thoughts on why it's poorly named here: https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Awfully%20Described%20Human%20Disorder https://romankogan.net/adhd/#Awfully%20Described%20Human%20D... (Someone complained I'm linking to my blog too much, but I haven't posted this link yet, and I don't want to needlessly copy-paste something that I already wrote)
- omginternets 5y agoIt's always nice to know you're not alone :) I'll give your blog a read, thanks! P.S.: "the thought of your friends not liking you makes you want to die" ... is that really an ADHD thing?? I thought that was a completely unrelated personality flaw.
- romwell 5y agoRejection Sensitivity seems to be rampant in ADHD folks. Can't say it's caused by ADHD, or the life experiences that one gets with ADHD, but it's a known correlation[1]. [1] https://www.additudemag.com/rejection-sensitive-dysphoria-and-adhd/ https://www.additudemag.com/rejection-sensitive-dysphoria-an...