5 ms·

Hard to answer, you might as well ask "what exactly does this not very defined group want?". Let's take feminism for example, which is generally considered as

by Levitz 5y ago

Hard to answer, you might as well ask "what exactly does this not very defined group want?". Let's take feminism for example, which is generally considered as pertaining to woke culture, what do feminists want? Well you have sex-positive feminists, sex-negative feminists, you've got the ones that want to legalize sex work, the ones who don't, abortion at every stage no matter the circumstance, abortion in hospitals depending on term, trans inclusive, trans exclusive, men inclusive, men exclusive, men-can-only-be-allies... And I'm not even mentioning different waves of feminism. It's hard to nail down what it pushes, exactly, but I'd say that a focus on identity politics as opposed to economic issues is a constant. A character existing solely because of their identity, disregarding if it adds anything is, I'd say, peak wokeism. And I've no doubt many will disagree with that, as some others will with any other take.

4ggr0 5y ago
To add to your points, as much as people may use identity politics to realize their interests, I think we should not forget the people who label simple and needed social changes as identity politics and peak wokeism, just because they disagree with said changes. As an example, some people think that showing homosexual people in media is part of some wokeist agenda, just virtue signalling and an act of identity politics. I guess to sum it up, we should probably stop using such general terms and just explain what we think in a couple of sentences. I guess that's where Twitter can be blamed a bit, when you don't have the space to thoroughly explain what you think, you have to resort to abbrevations and single words, in turn making it more confusing for everyone.
tomp 5y ago
Typical moat-and-bailey pro-woke argument. Can you list any media (mainstream news, or Hollywood) that are promoting sex-negative or trans exclusive views? There is no discussion or dissenting views allowed for most “woke” people.
- quacked 5y ago
  Fox News in the US. I agree mostly with your point that the film industry and the majority of print and cable news falls in line with progressive/leftist/"woke" talking points, but Fox is an absolutely massive propaganda vehicle with dozens of millions of daily viewers. They regularly promote trans-exclusive views.
  - simplestats 5y ago
    I'd say Fox exists as a reaction against the left-leaning bias of media. If audiences want anti-woke content all day (or conspiracy theories, or commie-stomping superagents, or...) I don't think a business that chases ratings and profits by giving it to them is fairly described as propaganda. Entertainment is commonly centered on the fears of its audience.
    - quacked 5y ago
      I don't think there's any difference in most entertainment and propaganda. The "official" definition of "propaganda" is: > Information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view. I would say that almost all entertainment is of a biased nature and is used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view. Pamphlets about the end of the world and Christianity--propaganda. The Glenn Beck show--propaganda. NYT editorials about defunding the police--propaganda. Tucker Carlson--propaganda. Joe Biden's Twitter account--propaganda. Portrayals of white men as problematic or evil in Netflix shows--propaganda. Portrayals of black men as problematic or evil in archaic books, shows, movies, etc.--propaganda. Edit: I realize I sound a little unhinged. Let me try to be more clear about my point. If media is deployed with the intent to promote or distribute a worldview, I think it is propaganda. Fox News meets the definition of propaganda because it promotes the worldview "cable news, specifically Fox News, is a source of authority". The fact that it is entertainment is not relevant to its status as propaganda; it gains that status by having a perfect propaganda-like effect on the public. The content of the media that's consumed by the public is less important than what the public believes about the sources putting out the media, and what authority the public lends to the media it consumes. Here is an article by an anonymous psychiatrist who writes a great deal about how the effect of media is less related to the content, and more related to how media dissemination of information infects and shapes its viewers' model of reality. They are taught how to learn, rather than what to learn, and the how always includes "more listening to the source putting out the information". https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/04/im_not_the_one_you_should_be_w.html https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/04/im_not_the_one_you_s...

by Levitz 5y ago

4ggr0 5y ago

To add to your points, as much as people may use identity politics to realize their interests, I think we should not forget the people who label simple and needed social changes as identity politics and peak wokeism, just because they disagree with said changes. As an example, some people think that showing homosexual people in media is part of some wokeist agenda, just virtue signalling and an act of identity politics. I guess to sum it up, we should probably stop using such general terms and just explain what we think in a couple of sentences. I guess that's where Twitter can be blamed a bit, when you don't have the space to thoroughly explain what you think, you have to resort to abbrevations and single words, in turn making it more confusing for everyone.

tomp 5y ago

Typical moat-and-bailey pro-woke argument. Can you list any media (mainstream news, or Hollywood) that are promoting sex-negative or trans exclusive views? There is no discussion or dissenting views allowed for most “woke” people.

quacked 5y ago
Fox News in the US. I agree mostly with your point that the film industry and the majority of print and cable news falls in line with progressive/leftist/"woke" talking points, but Fox is an absolutely massive propaganda vehicle with dozens of millions of daily viewers. They regularly promote trans-exclusive views.
- simplestats 5y ago
  I'd say Fox exists as a reaction against the left-leaning bias of media. If audiences want anti-woke content all day (or conspiracy theories, or commie-stomping superagents, or...) I don't think a business that chases ratings and profits by giving it to them is fairly described as propaganda. Entertainment is commonly centered on the fears of its audience.
  - quacked 5y ago
    I don't think there's any difference in most entertainment and propaganda. The "official" definition of "propaganda" is: > Information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view. I would say that almost all entertainment is of a biased nature and is used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view. Pamphlets about the end of the world and Christianity--propaganda. The Glenn Beck show--propaganda. NYT editorials about defunding the police--propaganda. Tucker Carlson--propaganda. Joe Biden's Twitter account--propaganda. Portrayals of white men as problematic or evil in Netflix shows--propaganda. Portrayals of black men as problematic or evil in archaic books, shows, movies, etc.--propaganda. Edit: I realize I sound a little unhinged. Let me try to be more clear about my point. If media is deployed with the intent to promote or distribute a worldview, I think it is propaganda. Fox News meets the definition of propaganda because it promotes the worldview "cable news, specifically Fox News, is a source of authority". The fact that it is entertainment is not relevant to its status as propaganda; it gains that status by having a perfect propaganda-like effect on the public. The content of the media that's consumed by the public is less important than what the public believes about the sources putting out the media, and what authority the public lends to the media it consumes. Here is an article by an anonymous psychiatrist who writes a great deal about how the effect of media is less related to the content, and more related to how media dissemination of information infects and shapes its viewers' model of reality. They are taught how to learn, rather than what to learn, and the how always includes "more listening to the source putting out the information". https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/04/im_not_the_one_you_should_be_w.html https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/04/im_not_the_one_you_s...