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Sadly this is the case for most topics on HN. Most discussions involve people talking past each other and beating dead horses. Not that it’s unique to HN.

by cle 5y ago

pdimitar 5y ago
Sometimes it's worth beating the dead horse. I would love it if I can eventually shout the "you-just-need-discipline" people to extinction. They should never win this debate. We must be humble and accept it's in our nature to make mistakes and that we should improve and move the area forward, not constantly scream at each other in favour of something impossible like "well just be 100% disciplined 100% of the time, duh".
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  > I would love it if I can eventually shout the "you-just-need-discipline" people to extinction. You shouldn't. They're partly right. You are correct that "just be 100% disciplined 100% of the time" will fail. But "just get a language/compiler smart enough that I don't need discipline" will also fail.
  - pdimitar 5y ago
    Ah, I thought that was a given. You definitely should learn a lot of discipline when you're a junior dev. You should develop eye for details and what feels right or wrong. That takes time and experience and can't be skipped. Speaking from the point of view of a senior dev however, certain practices become ultra tedious and annoying from one point and on. Literal soul crushers.
rambambram 5y ago
I don't know if it's sad. Realizing this is not going to change, but one can change one's own outlook on it. Currently, I use it as a filter: if I see this in a discussion, I know there's nothing for me to learn. And people show their 'true' colors, when they bite on these easy and emotional pseudo-discussions. So I have a free filter that works really well, and I don't have to do anything for it. :)
jgilias 5y ago
I for one enjoy the plurality of opinions! I much rather live in a society where people argue and don't agree on things, than in a society where there is one 'correct' opinion on everything. Even if I'm on a particular bandwagon, I don't necessarily want everyone else on it. If my bandwagon is actually heading for the cliffs, it's going to be the people not on it who may happen to focus my attention to the imminent crash so to speak.
- jt2190 5y ago
  But in either case, the arguments are “bandwagons” because they are context-free. Without context there can’t be a reasonable discussion of merits and trade offs, nor exploration of the bounds of the solution. Just parties talking past each other, never learning a thing.

Sadly this is the case for most topics on HN. Most discussions involve people talking past each other and beating dead horses. Not that it’s unique to HN.

by cle 5y ago

Sadly this is the case for most topics on HN. Most discussions involve people talking past each other and beating dead horses. Not that it’s unique to HN.

pdimitar 5y ago

Sometimes it's worth beating the dead horse. I would love it if I can eventually shout the "you-just-need-discipline" people to extinction. They should never win this debate. We must be humble and accept it's in our nature to make mistakes and that we should improve and move the area forward, not constantly scream at each other in favour of something impossible like "well just be 100% disciplined 100% of the time, duh".

AnimalMuppet 5y ago
> I would love it if I can eventually shout the "you-just-need-discipline" people to extinction. You shouldn't. They're partly right. You are correct that "just be 100% disciplined 100% of the time" will fail. But "just get a language/compiler smart enough that I don't need discipline" will also fail.
- pdimitar 5y ago
  Ah, I thought that was a given. You definitely should learn a lot of discipline when you're a junior dev. You should develop eye for details and what feels right or wrong. That takes time and experience and can't be skipped. Speaking from the point of view of a senior dev however, certain practices become ultra tedious and annoying from one point and on. Literal soul crushers.

rambambram 5y ago

I don't know if it's sad. Realizing this is not going to change, but one can change one's own outlook on it. Currently, I use it as a filter: if I see this in a discussion, I know there's nothing for me to learn. And people show their 'true' colors, when they bite on these easy and emotional pseudo-discussions. So I have a free filter that works really well, and I don't have to do anything for it. :)

jgilias 5y ago

I for one enjoy the plurality of opinions! I much rather live in a society where people argue and don't agree on things, than in a society where there is one 'correct' opinion on everything. Even if I'm on a particular bandwagon, I don't necessarily want everyone else on it. If my bandwagon is actually heading for the cliffs, it's going to be the people not on it who may happen to focus my attention to the imminent crash so to speak.

jt2190 5y ago
But in either case, the arguments are “bandwagons” because they are context-free. Without context there can’t be a reasonable discussion of merits and trade offs, nor exploration of the bounds of the solution. Just parties talking past each other, never learning a thing.