3 ms·

You do know that the developer of the AstraZeneca shots himself stated in august 2020 that these shots cannot achieve herd immunity because they allow infection

You do know that the developer of the AstraZeneca shots himself stated in august 2020 that these shots cannot achieve herd immunity because they allow infection and transmission and are merely a potential severe symptom mitigator which wane drastically in 3-6 months? He even warned policy makers to not make policies based on achieving herd immunity from these shots. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/12/herd-immunity-is-mythical-with-the-covid-delta-variant-experts-say.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/12/herd-immunity-is-mythical-wi... Viral load is the same between vaccinated vs unvaccinated folks as shown by several studies now. In many cases, it’s even higher in vaccinated folks. When a shot doesn’t prevent infection, that also means it allows mutations to occur in the vaccinated person which created immune escape variants more likely. You are conflating these shots with more traditional shots. The purpose of those traditional vaccines are to PREVENT infection and transmission. Smallpox, polio, measles etc vaccines all stop infection and transmission. Also those vaccines are long term tested for many decades. Smallpox vaccines are 200 years old. Smallpox, polio, measles etc also have severe problems to the person who gets them including kids. The COVID shots neither prevent infection and transmission, not have they been long term tested. And COVID is negligible for kids and youth unless you are obese or have pre-existing conditions (in which case, the COVID shots also aren't much effective). These shots should never have been called a “vaccine” because they do it fit the definition of a vaccine as they don’t prevent infection. Legal definition of a vaccine is: > The term “vaccine” means any substance designed to be administered to a human being for the prevention of 1 or more diseases. Notice the word “prevention”. Covid shots don’t do that. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/4132 https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/26/4132

joshuamorton 5y ago
Nearly every vaccine in human history has some level of escape or immunized infection rate. Flu, polio, MMR. They're all vaccines Covid vaccines do prevent (not all, but some) transmission and prevent (not all, but many) serious infections. This is the same as pretty much every other vaccine out there. Covid vaccines are still very effective if you have preexisting conditions. You're spreading lies, please don't do that.
- busymom0 5y ago
  Accusing me of lying while you are doing that is ironic. Covid vaccines do not prevent transmission. Ontario is 77% vaccinated but over 81% of cases are vaccinated. Even the rate of hospitalizations is now almost the same between the vaccinated vs unvaccinated here in Ontario. That is not the same as real effective vaccines like polio measles etc which prevent transmission and infection. Polio disappeared as more and more vaccinations occurred. Covid on the other hand has not and will not disappear. And why take my word for it when you can literally listen to the word of the vaccine developers themselves who say these shots will not achieve herd immunity and Covid is here to stay. Flu shots fail because of the mismatch and how fast it mutates. If you are willing to call something which does not prevent infection and transmission a “vaccine” then there’s no difference between a vaccine and a therapeutic. You are willing to conflate these shots with traditional vaccines without questioning whether these shots fit the definition of a vaccine. By simply calling any drug a vaccine, you are doing a major disservice to the real actually effective vaccines.
  - joshuamorton 5y ago
    > Ontario is 77% vaccinated but over 81% of cases are vaccinated 77% fully vaccinated, 84% partially vaccinated. So yeah, lower. (By around 20% once you do the math) > Even the rate of hospitalizations is now almost the same between the vaccinated vs unvaccinated here in Ontario. No, it's like 6x lower. Edit: Ah, I was looking at ICU numbers. Hospitalization rates, today, are similar. However, if Ontario is anything like other places hit by omnicron, the vaccinated patients will be out of the hospital in under a week, and the unvaccinated ones will remain longer and face more complications. So come back and see how things look in a week or two. > By simply calling [a vaccine] a vaccine, you are doing a major disservice to the real actually effective vaccines. No, I'm rejecting your antivax nonsense. Trying to say "no this isn't a vaccine so I'm not really antivax" is the trick you're trying to pull and I won't let you lie about that.
    - busymom0 5y ago
      > So yeah, lower. Not sure what math you are doing. In fact, as of today, 83% of Ontario's cases are vaccinated while 78% of the population is vaccinated with cases being at an all time high for the past month. > No, it's like 6x lower. No it's not. As of today 71% of hospitalizations in Ontario are fully vaccinated. The rate per 100k for unvaccinated is 16.01, 11.66 for fully vaccinated and 12.88 for partially vaccinated. So 16.01 / 11.66 = 1.4. In Toronto, 77% of hospitalizations are fully vaccinated. > No, I'm rejecting your antivax nonsense. Trying to say "no this isn't a vaccine so I'm not really antivax" is the trick you're trying to pull and I won't let you lie about that. Please don't bother replying as you are more interested in inflammatory language than stating facts.

joshuamorton 5y ago

Nearly every vaccine in human history has some level of escape or immunized infection rate. Flu, polio, MMR. They're all vaccines Covid vaccines do prevent (not all, but some) transmission and prevent (not all, but many) serious infections. This is the same as pretty much every other vaccine out there. Covid vaccines are still very effective if you have preexisting conditions. You're spreading lies, please don't do that.

busymom0 5y ago
Accusing me of lying while you are doing that is ironic. Covid vaccines do not prevent transmission. Ontario is 77% vaccinated but over 81% of cases are vaccinated. Even the rate of hospitalizations is now almost the same between the vaccinated vs unvaccinated here in Ontario. That is not the same as real effective vaccines like polio measles etc which prevent transmission and infection. Polio disappeared as more and more vaccinations occurred. Covid on the other hand has not and will not disappear. And why take my word for it when you can literally listen to the word of the vaccine developers themselves who say these shots will not achieve herd immunity and Covid is here to stay. Flu shots fail because of the mismatch and how fast it mutates. If you are willing to call something which does not prevent infection and transmission a “vaccine” then there’s no difference between a vaccine and a therapeutic. You are willing to conflate these shots with traditional vaccines without questioning whether these shots fit the definition of a vaccine. By simply calling any drug a vaccine, you are doing a major disservice to the real actually effective vaccines.
- joshuamorton 5y ago
  > Ontario is 77% vaccinated but over 81% of cases are vaccinated 77% fully vaccinated, 84% partially vaccinated. So yeah, lower. (By around 20% once you do the math) > Even the rate of hospitalizations is now almost the same between the vaccinated vs unvaccinated here in Ontario. No, it's like 6x lower. Edit: Ah, I was looking at ICU numbers. Hospitalization rates, today, are similar. However, if Ontario is anything like other places hit by omnicron, the vaccinated patients will be out of the hospital in under a week, and the unvaccinated ones will remain longer and face more complications. So come back and see how things look in a week or two. > By simply calling [a vaccine] a vaccine, you are doing a major disservice to the real actually effective vaccines. No, I'm rejecting your antivax nonsense. Trying to say "no this isn't a vaccine so I'm not really antivax" is the trick you're trying to pull and I won't let you lie about that.
  - busymom0 5y ago
    > So yeah, lower. Not sure what math you are doing. In fact, as of today, 83% of Ontario's cases are vaccinated while 78% of the population is vaccinated with cases being at an all time high for the past month. > No, it's like 6x lower. No it's not. As of today 71% of hospitalizations in Ontario are fully vaccinated. The rate per 100k for unvaccinated is 16.01, 11.66 for fully vaccinated and 12.88 for partially vaccinated. So 16.01 / 11.66 = 1.4. In Toronto, 77% of hospitalizations are fully vaccinated. > No, I'm rejecting your antivax nonsense. Trying to say "no this isn't a vaccine so I'm not really antivax" is the trick you're trying to pull and I won't let you lie about that. Please don't bother replying as you are more interested in inflammatory language than stating facts.