5 ms·

Really? It's legal? Would that mean someone running a torrent site should move their operation to switzerland to avoid getting prison time?

by hwers 5y ago

chiheisen 5y ago
Leeching is. Seeding is not. Its also more of a legal grayzone rather than a blanket "this is allowed".
- rg111 5y ago
  Only German lawyers are disgusting enough to go after seeders and downloaders who never intend to distribute "illegally" downloaded content. Sometimes they themselves seed torrents and monitor who else is seeding or leeching. If they happen to not use VPNs or proxy, and based in Germany, they get a legal notice from them. Nobody ever went to jail doing this. Some paid hefty fines, though. But a friend said that you can send them a counter notice where they have to prove that it was you at that time at that computer downloading or uploading. After doing this, someone he knows never heard back from these absolute parasites of the society. (I am not a lawyer, and this should not be taken as legal advice.)
  - sildur 5y ago
    What I did was to ignore the initial letter, and nothing happened. Over the years I’ve found that not engaging is usually the best defense.
  - belter 5y ago
    Its a rite of passage in Germany to get a "Waldorf & Frommer" letter. I plastered mine on the wall and use it as target practice. https://kanzlei-bennek.de/en/waldorf-frommer-warning/ https://kanzlei-bennek.de/en/waldorf-frommer-warning/ Ignore these people and never reply.
- tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
  Downloading isn't really a gray zone, even though some of the content industry would like to paint it as such.
  - compdoovid 5y ago
    But uploading content is ? hm? even when hatespeech may be seen as an expression of speech, the: "'190 visitors'(-rule)", 'viewed the content' -so it became a threat or worth to be 'investigated' is still such a thing (painting it as such) ?!
strobe999 5y ago
OP couldve been a bit more precise in their statement. Downloading is legal, uploading isnt.
- 5etho 5y ago
  and as a law student, it's stupid that torrent seeding is considered as releasing something to the internet. It is meant to be penal to be releaser or initial uploader - at least in polish(europe) criminal code, but non-technical judges just go with it, I hate it, but i'm not sure what polish equivalent of polish SCOTUS wrote about it to be honest as always lobbing by big companys is designed to screw over teenagers and common folk for exaple, got(HBO) in freench amazon 50$ afterdiscount, in polish stores - 250$, how to not pirate when minimal earnings - 750$
  - kebman 5y ago
    I bought my first pirated warez in Poland as a teen. I bought Atari ST games copied onto 3½-inch floppies at a shady market stall in Szczecin. Good times! (Not sure why the 3½-inch floppy disks are called floppy, because they ain't.) I mean, what was I supposed to do? They weren't available in my country! Sharing culture was strong even without the internet back then. I still fondly remember when I got hold of what was probably the first audio cassette tape to go viral in Norway. It was of a really angry North Norwegian cursing and cursing and cursing because he couldn't fix his bloody washing machine. Very colourful!
    - GekkePrutser 5y ago
      They're called floppy because the disc inside is still floppy :) Only the plastic case is hard.
- sildur 5y ago
  Same as Spain. So using Usenet is completely legal.
- lawl 5y ago
  Uploading isn't legal, but neither is collecting the IPs of people who upload from torrent swarms, so enforcing that is... Uh... Difficult. Edit: Source (german) https://www.admin.ch/gov/de/start/dokumentation/medienmitteilungen.msg-id-35040.html https://www.admin.ch/gov/de/start/dokumentation/medienmittei... Machine translation (deepl): > According to today's ruling by the Federal Supreme Court in Lausanne, IP addresses are clearly personal data, which means they fall under the Data Protection Act. Furthermore, in a majority decision, the highest court considers it inadmissible for private companies to secretly research IP addresses. According to today's Federal Court decision, there is no sufficient justification for this. With immediate effect, the company Logistep AG is no longer allowed to collect and pass on data, i.e. it must stop all data processing in the area of copyright.

Really? It's legal? Would that mean someone running a torrent site should move their operation to switzerland to avoid getting prison time?

by hwers 5y ago

Really? It's legal? Would that mean someone running a torrent site should move their operation to switzerland to avoid getting prison time?

chiheisen 5y ago

Leeching is. Seeding is not. Its also more of a legal grayzone rather than a blanket "this is allowed".

rg111 5y ago
Only German lawyers are disgusting enough to go after seeders and downloaders who never intend to distribute "illegally" downloaded content. Sometimes they themselves seed torrents and monitor who else is seeding or leeching. If they happen to not use VPNs or proxy, and based in Germany, they get a legal notice from them. Nobody ever went to jail doing this. Some paid hefty fines, though. But a friend said that you can send them a counter notice where they have to prove that it was you at that time at that computer downloading or uploading. After doing this, someone he knows never heard back from these absolute parasites of the society. (I am not a lawyer, and this should not be taken as legal advice.)
- sildur 5y ago
  What I did was to ignore the initial letter, and nothing happened. Over the years I’ve found that not engaging is usually the best defense.
- belter 5y ago
  Its a rite of passage in Germany to get a "Waldorf & Frommer" letter. I plastered mine on the wall and use it as target practice. https://kanzlei-bennek.de/en/waldorf-frommer-warning/ https://kanzlei-bennek.de/en/waldorf-frommer-warning/ Ignore these people and never reply.
tgsovlerkhgsel 5y ago
Downloading isn't really a gray zone, even though some of the content industry would like to paint it as such.
- compdoovid 5y ago
  But uploading content is ? hm? even when hatespeech may be seen as an expression of speech, the: "'190 visitors'(-rule)", 'viewed the content' -so it became a threat or worth to be 'investigated' is still such a thing (painting it as such) ?!

strobe999 5y ago

OP couldve been a bit more precise in their statement. Downloading is legal, uploading isnt.

5etho 5y ago
and as a law student, it's stupid that torrent seeding is considered as releasing something to the internet. It is meant to be penal to be releaser or initial uploader - at least in polish(europe) criminal code, but non-technical judges just go with it, I hate it, but i'm not sure what polish equivalent of polish SCOTUS wrote about it to be honest as always lobbing by big companys is designed to screw over teenagers and common folk for exaple, got(HBO) in freench amazon 50$ afterdiscount, in polish stores - 250$, how to not pirate when minimal earnings - 750$
- kebman 5y ago
  I bought my first pirated warez in Poland as a teen. I bought Atari ST games copied onto 3½-inch floppies at a shady market stall in Szczecin. Good times! (Not sure why the 3½-inch floppy disks are called floppy, because they ain't.) I mean, what was I supposed to do? They weren't available in my country! Sharing culture was strong even without the internet back then. I still fondly remember when I got hold of what was probably the first audio cassette tape to go viral in Norway. It was of a really angry North Norwegian cursing and cursing and cursing because he couldn't fix his bloody washing machine. Very colourful!
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    They're called floppy because the disc inside is still floppy :) Only the plastic case is hard.
sildur 5y ago
Same as Spain. So using Usenet is completely legal.
lawl 5y ago
Uploading isn't legal, but neither is collecting the IPs of people who upload from torrent swarms, so enforcing that is... Uh... Difficult. Edit: Source (german) https://www.admin.ch/gov/de/start/dokumentation/medienmitteilungen.msg-id-35040.html https://www.admin.ch/gov/de/start/dokumentation/medienmittei... Machine translation (deepl): > According to today's ruling by the Federal Supreme Court in Lausanne, IP addresses are clearly personal data, which means they fall under the Data Protection Act. Furthermore, in a majority decision, the highest court considers it inadmissible for private companies to secretly research IP addresses. According to today's Federal Court decision, there is no sufficient justification for this. With immediate effect, the company Logistep AG is no longer allowed to collect and pass on data, i.e. it must stop all data processing in the area of copyright.