4 ms·

Just to note: django-zen-queries doesn’t encourage you to execute querysets as soon as you define them, but rather just before you pass them to a template or se

by j4mie 5y ago

Just to note: django-zen-queries doesn’t encourage you to execute querysets as soon as you define them, but rather just before you pass them to a template or serializer. This is a pattern we’ve found really useful. (I’m the author of django-zen-queries) I’m not a fan of the hyperbole in the article either. Some of the points are genuine problems but none of them should put off beginners.

bluewalt 5y ago
I just found out this package and absolutely love the idea of "sanitizing" the queries. However I'm just wondering: if I'm a solo dev and I already monitor all my endpoints using Django Debug toolbar, how is it still useful to use this package?
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  I doubt it. In my entire career I've got away with just relying on a "gut feeling" about whether a query needs a select/prefetch_related and it has yet to fail me. Yes, you're going to have a handful of stray queries here and there that could technically be avoided, but is the extra developer effort worth it? Hardware is very cheap (well if you know where to look, definitely don't look in the clouds), take advantage of that. Unless you're programming purely for the sake of programming, what matters is the end result and the problem your application is solving. Your code doesn't have to be 100% perfect (otherwise why are you using a dynamically-typed, interpreted language?), it just has to work well enough to solve the business problem - other tools such as monitoring will quickly tell you if you've made a mistake and you can go back to the drawing board and add that extra select/prefetch_related you missed the first time.
stavros 5y ago
As an experienced Django developer, I found django-zen-queries very good for hygiene, and I'm going to start using it. I should also pay attention to django-debug-toolbar's query view more often. I generally don't need to optimize my queries because my apps are small, but I should do that by default, because otherwise it's wasteful and it's not hard to do. It's just that Django's default doesn't encourage you too, but hopefully with Zen Queries it will.
- jmconfuzeus 5y ago
  Many developers never look at the SQL panel in debug toolbar. That's why I'm advocating to evaluate QuerySets before presenting any data. It's just a way to make less mistakes.
  - stavros 5y ago
    Yeah, completely agreed. That's why I like Zen Queries.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  > I generally don't need to optimize my queries because my apps are small Same situation here. I find that being mindful of the ORM is enough to save me from obviously bad queries (fetching 100 objects and then running additional queries for each one), for the rest I get away with it as it's not a problem in practice. Sure, I will probably save an extra milisecond here and there and maybe in the end be able to run my entire DB off a very small computer, but (bare-metal) hardware is so cheap that a few stray queries here and there won't break the bank. Nevertheless I've installed the package and will be trying it out, but I have yet to be convinced that eliminating additional queries all the time is worth the extra developer effort.
  - stavros 5y ago
    I tried it, and came to the same conclusion as you. Fortunately, the package doesn't require you to do it all the time, you can pick a few at-risk functions and only disallow template queries there.

by j4mie 5y ago

bluewalt 5y ago

I just found out this package and absolutely love the idea of "sanitizing" the queries. However I'm just wondering: if I'm a solo dev and I already monitor all my endpoints using Django Debug toolbar, how is it still useful to use this package?

Nextgrid 5y ago
I doubt it. In my entire career I've got away with just relying on a "gut feeling" about whether a query needs a select/prefetch_related and it has yet to fail me. Yes, you're going to have a handful of stray queries here and there that could technically be avoided, but is the extra developer effort worth it? Hardware is very cheap (well if you know where to look, definitely don't look in the clouds), take advantage of that. Unless you're programming purely for the sake of programming, what matters is the end result and the problem your application is solving. Your code doesn't have to be 100% perfect (otherwise why are you using a dynamically-typed, interpreted language?), it just has to work well enough to solve the business problem - other tools such as monitoring will quickly tell you if you've made a mistake and you can go back to the drawing board and add that extra select/prefetch_related you missed the first time.

stavros 5y ago

As an experienced Django developer, I found django-zen-queries very good for hygiene, and I'm going to start using it. I should also pay attention to django-debug-toolbar's query view more often. I generally don't need to optimize my queries because my apps are small, but I should do that by default, because otherwise it's wasteful and it's not hard to do. It's just that Django's default doesn't encourage you too, but hopefully with Zen Queries it will.

jmconfuzeus 5y ago
Many developers never look at the SQL panel in debug toolbar. That's why I'm advocating to evaluate QuerySets before presenting any data. It's just a way to make less mistakes.
- stavros 5y ago
  Yeah, completely agreed. That's why I like Zen Queries.
Nextgrid 5y ago
> I generally don't need to optimize my queries because my apps are small Same situation here. I find that being mindful of the ORM is enough to save me from obviously bad queries (fetching 100 objects and then running additional queries for each one), for the rest I get away with it as it's not a problem in practice. Sure, I will probably save an extra milisecond here and there and maybe in the end be able to run my entire DB off a very small computer, but (bare-metal) hardware is so cheap that a few stray queries here and there won't break the bank. Nevertheless I've installed the package and will be trying it out, but I have yet to be convinced that eliminating additional queries all the time is worth the extra developer effort.
- stavros 5y ago
  I tried it, and came to the same conclusion as you. Fortunately, the package doesn't require you to do it all the time, you can pick a few at-risk functions and only disallow template queries there.