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European Airlines Are Operating 18,000 Empty Flights Because of a Dumb Rule
- perfunctory 5y agoSo this is how Lufthansa spends its covid bailout money. Nice.
- the-dude 5y agoHaven't they paid it back? https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/lufthansa-repays-15-bln-euros-state-aid-after-cash-call-2021-10-11/ https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/lufthansa...
- perfunctory 5y agoThey have. But it doesn't change the fact that the bailout helped them to maintain their market dominance which they now perpetuate by abusing the rules.
- quantified 5y agoNo one is forcing them to fly the planes. If they lost the slots to a competitor that has passengers, that’s how it should be.
- Hokusai 5y agoThanks for saying that out loud. Companies have become accustomed to blame others for the company own behavior. Nobody forces then to fly that planes, they do it because they want.
- mrpopo 5y agoA company is in business to make profit. A company isn't a human being and doesn't have a "behaviour". You can't trust a company to do the right thing. However, you can trust a company to follow the law, and therefore we need legislative restrictions to make sure their actions have no negative consequences on society.
- DarkWiiPlayer 5y agoSimple solution: Don't count empty flights towards their minimum. If you fly at less than, say, 20% capacity more than 20% of the time, you should lose slots because you clearly don't need them.
- quantified 5y agoThis. Because burning money to prevent competitors accessing shared resources is just anti-competitive.
- Hokusai 5y ago> You can't trust a company to do the right thing. I agree to some extend. But for any society to work there needs to be a minimum of good will, if companies continue pushing the boundaries of what is reasonable they are going to end breaking the system. It's very expensive and inefficient to have to be validating each action that a company does. > therefore we need legislative restrictions to make sure their actions have no negative consequences on society. On this I fully agree. The laws need to be adapted to the situation. Society should use the government power to make companies behave in a way that makes society better.
- mrpopo 5y agoAre you intentionally missing the point? There are no passengers. They are planning to burn 100s of thousands of tons of CO2 because of a rule that is not taking into account unprecedented situations like the one we are living now. It is fixable, that's why it's important to share this information, and that's why Belgium’s mobility minister has written to the European Commission to demand a law change (per the article). But no, that's not how it should be.
- quantified 5y agoI don’t think I’m missing the point, I think the point is a bit different. They’re flying empty planes because they want to keep gates away from other airlines. That’s on them. They don’t need to fly the planes. The real story is “Lufhansa plans to waste massive carbon to prevent competition.” They’re not the innocent bystander here.
- kjaftaedi 5y agoThis is not how it works at all. Slots are extremely valuable, they are highly regulated because they are in such demand. These aren't just things you take and leave at random.
- DarkWiiPlayer 5y ago> Slots are extremely valuable Well, the reality that they have to fly empty kind of contradicts this.
- kjaftaedi 5y agoThese aren't items that are bought and sold. If you give up your slot, you can not buy it back at any price. Now your have to re-route your whole airline network. The value is in terms of not bankrupting your company.
- quantified 5y ago
- kjaftaedi 5y agoYou're making a strawman / false equivalence. They are forcing them to fly the planes. The company has already decided the value of the slots exceed the lost passenger revenue. The company could not fly the plane, but the governments rules force the situation. The rules were changed during covid to alleviate this, but now that the rules have changed back, we see the same situation again. Imagine if you were faced with an equivalent dilemma: You are in a situation where you will lose the right to park in your own garage for a year. To keep your garage rights all you have to do is drive around aimlessly for an hour. Do you decide the environment is more important, or do you want to park in your garage?
- quantified 5y agoThe decision is on me. If the environment is actually important, I drop the space. If I’m spending the next year just driving aimlessly to keep the space, I don’t really need it. Please quote the text of the article which claims they are being forced to fly? In fact you do claim it’s the company’s decision that this is the best course of action, acknowledging the alternative that’s plainly available.
- kjaftaedi 5y agoIt's the law. Just Google 'use it or lose it slot rule' It was dropped in March 2020, but recently brought back since the committee thought the pandemic was 'over'. Here is an article I googled for you: https://simpleflying.com/lufthansa-ghost-flights/ https://simpleflying.com/lufthansa-ghost-flights/ I think this was discussed here a day or two ago.
- quantified 5y agoYes, there is the “or lose it” option. There is no forcing. They have the option. I can understand that they don’t like the rule. But to say they are forced is like saying your friends forced you to to go to a movie with them. It’s not forcing in any way. “Inspiring” is probably the right word.
- okr 5y agoI hear buses and trains also operate on schedules. I also remember taxis roaming around empty.
- DarkWiiPlayer 5y agoBuses and trains follow set routes. When the last person exits at station A and the next person is waiting at station C, the train itself still needs to get to station C, and it can't skip station B because there's no way of telling if somebody might show up by the time the train gets there.
- LinuxBender 5y agoThat sounds like a feature request or opportunity for improvement. Sensors at the station to know if it is occupied. Some stations already have security cameras and modern security camera systems can detect motion so the foundation may already be in some places.
- rurban 5y agoMy company is selling such sensors. Europe only. IoT sensors can do a lot of useful things for trains. Such as checking if a long train in Siberia lost a few wagons. Check if a door will break in a month or two.