5 ms·

Why don't you just come out and say what you want to say?

samvher 5y ago
My guess is it reminds of Ayn Rand / Atlas Shrugged, but that’s just based on what I’ve picked up from documentaries (I haven’t read this book or anything else by her).
- meheleventyone 5y ago
  Yeah I went and checked out the authors Twitter after reading the article and there was a tweet praising Atlas Shrugged very near the top which was amazingly on-brand I thought after reading the article. Having actually read the book when I was going through an ill-thought out libertarian phase I don't understand how anyone capable of engaging writing themselves can think it's anything other than turgid dross. Feels more like praising it is part of the belief system than anything else.
  - pm90 5y ago
    It’s a shibboleth at this point into the club of the ultra selfish.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    I wasn't thinking about Ayn Rand (although her presence is no surprise at all). Lets just say that some of the rhetoric must have sounded better in the original German. e.g. "Übermensch" is a much more evocative word than "overman".
    - memling 5y ago
      > "Übermensch" is a much more evocative word than "overman". Try "Superman" instead. I'm not a historian, and I've wondered whether the historical background for the comic (conceived in the early '30s I think?) included some of the racial overtones that were more pervasive at the time. I don't know how influential Darwin and Galton were scientifically at the time, but even if they weren't current in scientific circles (which I kind of doubt), certainly it's hard to ignore that the ideas were "in the water" so to speak.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
        > and I've wondered whether the historical background for the (Superman) comic included some of the racial overtones that were more pervasive at the time. Maybe you should look into it some more then https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/jan/30/take-that-mr-hitler-the-jewish-roots-of-superheroes https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/jan/30/take-that-mr... https://screenrant.com/superman-secret-hebrew-name-jewish-kal-el-moses/ https://screenrant.com/superman-secret-hebrew-name-jewish-ka... https://anfieldindex.com/geek/comics/superman-jewish-hero https://anfieldindex.com/geek/comics/superman-jewish-hero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Siegel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Siegel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Shuster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Shuster
        memling 5y ago
        These were super interesting, thank you. Do you know if there are any references to them intentionally trying to subvert the Nazi idealism of the Übermensch?
        memling 5y ago
        Thanks for the links! I'll check them out.
    - meheleventyone 5y ago
      I was waiting for the blood and soil stuff but maybe that’s the next issue. I had thought the dork enlightenment stuff had died a death but apparently not.
      - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
        > I had thought the dork enlightenment stuff had died a death Gotta put out the rich backer's message to where the audience is receptive. And phrase it to please them (i.e. sound thoughtful)
        jonstewart 5y ago
        Yes, exactly. When reading essays like this, a critical thinker should remember “consider the source” and “cui bono?”
SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
Godwin's law.
- honkdaddy 5y ago
  So just to be clear - you're likening the author to Adolf Hitler? If you think someone is a racist or a transphobe or a nazi or whatever flavour of the month punchline you prefer, you should just come out and say it, rather than being so bizarrely vague and smug about it. You think he's a nazi because he used to work with Peter Thiel - just say it!
  - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
    I can't say what the author is like, as I never heard of them before today. I note what the rhetoric of this piece echoes very strongly, and no doubt deliberately. I don't think that the "flavour of the month punchline" comment is in any way justified. It is neither.
    - honkdaddy 5y ago
      But the Hitler comparison is what you meant, no? What is the rhetoric of the piece that you're talking about?
      - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
        Since you ask, the phrases that I quoted are white nationalist and or Fascist (Neo- or old-school) thinking and imagery. I won't claim that it's all about one person's speaking style, that is reductive. The philosophy (such as it is) of those movements wasn't found there alone. This guy gets it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29837954 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29837954 Sorry to be "vague", I have no wish to be open to accusation (good faith or otherwise) regarding the site guidelines https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
        5y ago

My guess is it reminds of Ayn Rand / Atlas Shrugged, but that’s just based on what I’ve picked up from documentaries (I haven’t read this book or anything else by her).

meheleventyone 5y ago
Yeah I went and checked out the authors Twitter after reading the article and there was a tweet praising Atlas Shrugged very near the top which was amazingly on-brand I thought after reading the article. Having actually read the book when I was going through an ill-thought out libertarian phase I don't understand how anyone capable of engaging writing themselves can think it's anything other than turgid dross. Feels more like praising it is part of the belief system than anything else.
- pm90 5y ago
  It’s a shibboleth at this point into the club of the ultra selfish.
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  I wasn't thinking about Ayn Rand (although her presence is no surprise at all). Lets just say that some of the rhetoric must have sounded better in the original German. e.g. "Übermensch" is a much more evocative word than "overman".
  - memling 5y ago
    > "Übermensch" is a much more evocative word than "overman". Try "Superman" instead. I'm not a historian, and I've wondered whether the historical background for the comic (conceived in the early '30s I think?) included some of the racial overtones that were more pervasive at the time. I don't know how influential Darwin and Galton were scientifically at the time, but even if they weren't current in scientific circles (which I kind of doubt), certainly it's hard to ignore that the ideas were "in the water" so to speak.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
      > and I've wondered whether the historical background for the (Superman) comic included some of the racial overtones that were more pervasive at the time. Maybe you should look into it some more then https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/jan/30/take-that-mr-hitler-the-jewish-roots-of-superheroes https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/jan/30/take-that-mr... https://screenrant.com/superman-secret-hebrew-name-jewish-kal-el-moses/ https://screenrant.com/superman-secret-hebrew-name-jewish-ka... https://anfieldindex.com/geek/comics/superman-jewish-hero https://anfieldindex.com/geek/comics/superman-jewish-hero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Siegel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Siegel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Shuster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Shuster
      - memling 5y ago
        These were super interesting, thank you. Do you know if there are any references to them intentionally trying to subvert the Nazi idealism of the Übermensch?
      - memling 5y ago
        Thanks for the links! I'll check them out.
  - meheleventyone 5y ago
    I was waiting for the blood and soil stuff but maybe that’s the next issue. I had thought the dork enlightenment stuff had died a death but apparently not.
    - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
      > I had thought the dork enlightenment stuff had died a death Gotta put out the rich backer's message to where the audience is receptive. And phrase it to please them (i.e. sound thoughtful)
      - jonstewart 5y ago
        Yes, exactly. When reading essays like this, a critical thinker should remember “consider the source” and “cui bono?”

SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago

Godwin's law.

honkdaddy 5y ago
So just to be clear - you're likening the author to Adolf Hitler? If you think someone is a racist or a transphobe or a nazi or whatever flavour of the month punchline you prefer, you should just come out and say it, rather than being so bizarrely vague and smug about it. You think he's a nazi because he used to work with Peter Thiel - just say it!
- SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
  I can't say what the author is like, as I never heard of them before today. I note what the rhetoric of this piece echoes very strongly, and no doubt deliberately. I don't think that the "flavour of the month punchline" comment is in any way justified. It is neither.
  - honkdaddy 5y ago
    But the Hitler comparison is what you meant, no? What is the rhetoric of the piece that you're talking about?
    - SideburnsOfDoom 5y ago
      Since you ask, the phrases that I quoted are white nationalist and or Fascist (Neo- or old-school) thinking and imagery. I won't claim that it's all about one person's speaking style, that is reductive. The philosophy (such as it is) of those movements wasn't found there alone. This guy gets it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29837954 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29837954 Sorry to be "vague", I have no wish to be open to accusation (good faith or otherwise) regarding the site guidelines https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - 5y ago