5 ms·

>The film also notes that the United States has laws against propagandizing the U.S. public, which might make such a disclosure a confession of a crime. I would

by 34679 5y ago

>The film also notes that the United States has laws against propagandizing the U.S. public, which might make such a disclosure a confession of a crime. I would add that since 1976, the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights has required that “Any propaganda for war shall be prohibited by law.” That changed in 2013: >The U.S. government's mammoth broadcasting arm has begun the "unleashing of thousands of hours per week of government-funded radio and TV programs for domestic U.S. consumption," John Hudson of Foreign Policy reported on Sunday. >The content arrives with the enactment of the Smith-Mundt Modernization Act of 2012, sponsored by Rep. Mac Thornberry (R- Texas) and Rep. Adam Smith (D- Wash.), which was inserted into the 2013 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). >The reform effectively nullifies the Smith-Mundt Act of 1948, which was amended in 1985 specifically to prohibit U.S. organizations from using information "to influence public opinion in the United States." >The new law enables U.S. government programming such as Voice of America (VoA) — an outlet created in 1942 to promote a positive understanding of the U.S. abroad — t0 broadcast directly to domestic audiences for the first time. https://www.businessinsider.com/us-domestic-propaganda-officially-aired-2013-7?op=1 https://www.businessinsider.com/us-domestic-propaganda-offic...

Threeve303 5y ago
Imagine you have a tech industry that merged with madison avenue along with psychological methods learned from Guantanamo and CIA Black Sites, and you wanted to build a societal manipulation machine, otherwise known as propaganda. Makes me wonder if there is any relation between the changes mentioned here and some of what the social media infrastructure has been used to do.
- colpabar 5y ago
  Whoa! Easy with the conspiracy theories! /s
- q1w2 5y ago
  If any of this exists, then they're doing a terrible job. There is far more anti-American propaganda online than anything American-made.
  - hateful 5y ago
    But it could be argued that that's there to provoke a pro-American reaction! /conspiracy
  - ZoomerCretin 5y ago
    Public perception of the United States' new cold war foe has turned in most western countries. I'd say it is pretty effective.
- smsm42 5y ago
  > psychological methods learned from Guantanamo and CIA Black Sites, What would those be? If CIA and such has some special "psychological methods", how comes they never actually used it to achieve anything related to their direct job? I mean, let's embrace the conspiracy and assume they have these spectacular methods that can make anybody think anything and they are willing to use it on anybody, including Americans. Why won't they use it on Taliban or Iranians or Hezbollah and make them love America and crave McDonalds burgers and Starbucks coffee? Why didn't they use it for anything, even if just to get promoted and look good on the annual report? I think much more realistic hypothesis would be that they have no magic spectacular "psychological methods" at all and are as (in)competent in persuasion as a random politician is, and are forced to muddle through with what they got, and they need "black sites" so that public wouldn't actually learn how low their success rate is and how lucky we are because their opponents aren't exactly geniuses either.
  - throwaway829 5y ago
    There's nothing magical about it. All that's needed is control of the media your target consumes. "Manufacturing Consent" by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky covers how this works. The Taliban consume the Koran. They reject most forms of mass media. Thus it's very hard to manipulate them into a western lifestyle. The alternative would be to find their "opinion leaders" and coerce them. Anyway, it's naïve to think these techniques are not used at home and abroad.
    - smsm42 5y ago
      It'd be naive if there were any indications of "these techniques" existing beyond extremely vague hand-wavy conspiracy implications. Just throwing out the name of Chomsky's book is not an actual evidence of anything. Tell me which specifically Gitmo-CIA-black-site-derived techniques you mean. You don't have to spell out the whole Chomsky, just name a couple, 2-3 sentences would be enough.
      - hoseja 5y ago
        Daddy, what is top-secret unknown unknown? Perhaps next you'll ask me to list three NSA zero-days?
pibechorro 5y ago
Yup, Obama under the radar a few days before leaving office to Trump approved the creation of a propaganda department specifically targeting US citizens. Its no wonder we hear the same talking points across corporate media. At this point the only thing we can truly trust is independent journalists. Most concerning is the rampant and normaliced acceptance of censorship in social media. Democracy depends on free speech. Its time we start dictching Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, Google search for more open platforms that allow a broad and unfiltered exchange of ideas. We the people, not the other way around.
quacked 5y ago
Are there any examples of these radio and TV programs that are openly controlled by a propaganda arm of the government?
mulmen 5y ago
Ok so war propaganda is illegal but what changed in 2013? Did the laws change or did we just stop caring to enforce them?
- riedel 5y ago
  The act "geoblocked" propaganda that was ment e.g. for us European's from being received in the US. I think the argument is by "unblocking" it for US audiences there is indirectly a legalization of national propaganda. Particularly as such propaganda is excempt from the freedom of information act, it might be rather hard to prove that such propaganda only targeted an international audience (which is quite aware that Hollywood movies are all propaganda for the American way of live, I guess)
  - emsign 5y ago
    I wonder if some Youtube videos by Deutsche Welle get blocked in Germany for a similar reason. I'll have to investigate that.
  - fundad 5y ago
    Laws are just norms, enforcement is done with intention
- walterbell 5y ago
  U.S. legalization of propaganda lead to an industrial-scale "grassroots PR" industry for use by any buyer in the "nudge" market, including a sizable subset of the global Fortune 500. This industry has since been active in online venues with meaningful audiences, http://www.techsoc.com/grassroots.html http://www.techsoc.com/grassroots.html & https://twitter.com/evoleadership/status/761959456624082944 https://twitter.com/evoleadership/status/761959456624082944 2010 paper made a case for Smith-Mundt act changes, https://web.archive.org/web/20220107123332/https://www.hsdl.org/?view=&did=812587 https://web.archive.org/web/20220107123332/https://www.hsdl.... > The cyber world will progressively become both a boon and a bane to IO personnel, allowing them to reach a global audience, but also providing a large vulnerability to enemy deception and PSYOP efforts that will require a near immediate response to worldwide, operational events .. Update US Influence Operations doctrine to .. develop TTPs for employing PSYOP, MILDEC, and Public Affairs using the new cyber technology. Once developed, the TTPs must .. allow the military IO operator an avenue for developing proficiency in the release of “precision guided messages” to foreign audiences. 2018 analysis, https://web.archive.org/web/20180720063648if_/http://repository.essex.ac.uk/21204/1/final%20proofs%20-%20accepted%20-%20corrected%20errors%20Dec.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20180720063648if_/http://reposit... > ..government bureaucracy advanced measures aimed at controlling the global online environment. Commercial companies further exploited their geographical flexibility, minimal accountability and ‘black boxed’ practises, to profit from this desire to side-step awkward bureaucracy designed to protect the public ... the ‘merging’ of PSYOP and PA raised concern in academia and beyond ... This article engages in deep exploration of struggles between subfields of propaganda. It shows how PSYOP and Information Operations (IO) personnel struggled against Public Affairs over the adaptation of systems.. Other search terms: Information Operations (IO) Influence Operations (IO) Inform and Influence Activities (IIA) Interactive Internet Activities (IIA)
raverbashing 5y ago
However, that act didn't seem to have an effect in publishing media like: Top Gun movies and the America's Army videogame. Not sure how the VoA programming looks like (sounds like I guess) but I don't think outlets for government promotion were lacking even before the act was overturned
- biztos 5y ago
  During the Cold War, the US government, via the United States Information Agency (USIA)[0] delivered all sorts of propaganda to our ideological adversaries, in particular communist countries. They usually tried to reach the average person and thus skew opinion in our (America's) favor. I got a glimpse of some of this because I was an exchange student in the 80's, in a program sponsored by Congress and considered relevant to said Cold War. It was pretty interesting! Plenty of eagles and big cars and class mobility, but also a lot of stuff about freedom of thought and expression. I remember at the time being quite miffed that they were not allowed to intentionally expose US citizens to any of this propaganda -- US expats were not even allowed to use the America-sponsored libraries abroad -- because it seemed like keeping it open would encourage the government to send a message that, broadly speaking, Americans agreed with. Now that I'm older, I'm not sure. I think maybe it was better for them to have a freer hand in propagandizing, without having to argue about every point in a domestic context. Nowadays, however, it's hard to imagine that secrecy working at all so it's just as well they gave up. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Information_Agency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Information_Agen...
- majgr 5y ago
  > America's Army videogame That was a great game. High realism, frag grenades with right range, different stance involving accuracy, shooting using iron sights. I played tons of hours on Bridge and Hospital maps.

by 34679 5y ago

Threeve303 5y ago

Imagine you have a tech industry that merged with madison avenue along with psychological methods learned from Guantanamo and CIA Black Sites, and you wanted to build a societal manipulation machine, otherwise known as propaganda. Makes me wonder if there is any relation between the changes mentioned here and some of what the social media infrastructure has been used to do.

colpabar 5y ago
Whoa! Easy with the conspiracy theories! /s
q1w2 5y ago
If any of this exists, then they're doing a terrible job. There is far more anti-American propaganda online than anything American-made.
- hateful 5y ago
  But it could be argued that that's there to provoke a pro-American reaction! /conspiracy
- ZoomerCretin 5y ago
  Public perception of the United States' new cold war foe has turned in most western countries. I'd say it is pretty effective.
smsm42 5y ago
> psychological methods learned from Guantanamo and CIA Black Sites, What would those be? If CIA and such has some special "psychological methods", how comes they never actually used it to achieve anything related to their direct job? I mean, let's embrace the conspiracy and assume they have these spectacular methods that can make anybody think anything and they are willing to use it on anybody, including Americans. Why won't they use it on Taliban or Iranians or Hezbollah and make them love America and crave McDonalds burgers and Starbucks coffee? Why didn't they use it for anything, even if just to get promoted and look good on the annual report? I think much more realistic hypothesis would be that they have no magic spectacular "psychological methods" at all and are as (in)competent in persuasion as a random politician is, and are forced to muddle through with what they got, and they need "black sites" so that public wouldn't actually learn how low their success rate is and how lucky we are because their opponents aren't exactly geniuses either.
- throwaway829 5y ago
  There's nothing magical about it. All that's needed is control of the media your target consumes. "Manufacturing Consent" by Edward S. Herman and Noam Chomsky covers how this works. The Taliban consume the Koran. They reject most forms of mass media. Thus it's very hard to manipulate them into a western lifestyle. The alternative would be to find their "opinion leaders" and coerce them. Anyway, it's naïve to think these techniques are not used at home and abroad.
  - smsm42 5y ago
    It'd be naive if there were any indications of "these techniques" existing beyond extremely vague hand-wavy conspiracy implications. Just throwing out the name of Chomsky's book is not an actual evidence of anything. Tell me which specifically Gitmo-CIA-black-site-derived techniques you mean. You don't have to spell out the whole Chomsky, just name a couple, 2-3 sentences would be enough.
    - hoseja 5y ago
      Daddy, what is top-secret unknown unknown? Perhaps next you'll ask me to list three NSA zero-days?

pibechorro 5y ago

Yup, Obama under the radar a few days before leaving office to Trump approved the creation of a propaganda department specifically targeting US citizens. Its no wonder we hear the same talking points across corporate media. At this point the only thing we can truly trust is independent journalists. Most concerning is the rampant and normaliced acceptance of censorship in social media. Democracy depends on free speech. Its time we start dictching Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, Google search for more open platforms that allow a broad and unfiltered exchange of ideas. We the people, not the other way around.

quacked 5y ago

Are there any examples of these radio and TV programs that are openly controlled by a propaganda arm of the government?

mulmen 5y ago

Ok so war propaganda is illegal but what changed in 2013? Did the laws change or did we just stop caring to enforce them?

riedel 5y ago
The act "geoblocked" propaganda that was ment e.g. for us European's from being received in the US. I think the argument is by "unblocking" it for US audiences there is indirectly a legalization of national propaganda. Particularly as such propaganda is excempt from the freedom of information act, it might be rather hard to prove that such propaganda only targeted an international audience (which is quite aware that Hollywood movies are all propaganda for the American way of live, I guess)
- emsign 5y ago
  I wonder if some Youtube videos by Deutsche Welle get blocked in Germany for a similar reason. I'll have to investigate that.
- fundad 5y ago
  Laws are just norms, enforcement is done with intention
walterbell 5y ago
U.S. legalization of propaganda lead to an industrial-scale "grassroots PR" industry for use by any buyer in the "nudge" market, including a sizable subset of the global Fortune 500. This industry has since been active in online venues with meaningful audiences, http://www.techsoc.com/grassroots.html http://www.techsoc.com/grassroots.html & https://twitter.com/evoleadership/status/761959456624082944 https://twitter.com/evoleadership/status/761959456624082944 2010 paper made a case for Smith-Mundt act changes, https://web.archive.org/web/20220107123332/https://www.hsdl.org/?view=&did=812587 https://web.archive.org/web/20220107123332/https://www.hsdl.... > The cyber world will progressively become both a boon and a bane to IO personnel, allowing them to reach a global audience, but also providing a large vulnerability to enemy deception and PSYOP efforts that will require a near immediate response to worldwide, operational events .. Update US Influence Operations doctrine to .. develop TTPs for employing PSYOP, MILDEC, and Public Affairs using the new cyber technology. Once developed, the TTPs must .. allow the military IO operator an avenue for developing proficiency in the release of “precision guided messages” to foreign audiences. 2018 analysis, https://web.archive.org/web/20180720063648if_/http://repository.essex.ac.uk/21204/1/final%20proofs%20-%20accepted%20-%20corrected%20errors%20Dec.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20180720063648if_/http://reposit... > ..government bureaucracy advanced measures aimed at controlling the global online environment. Commercial companies further exploited their geographical flexibility, minimal accountability and ‘black boxed’ practises, to profit from this desire to side-step awkward bureaucracy designed to protect the public ... the ‘merging’ of PSYOP and PA raised concern in academia and beyond ... This article engages in deep exploration of struggles between subfields of propaganda. It shows how PSYOP and Information Operations (IO) personnel struggled against Public Affairs over the adaptation of systems.. Other search terms: Information Operations (IO) Influence Operations (IO) Inform and Influence Activities (IIA) Interactive Internet Activities (IIA)

raverbashing 5y ago

However, that act didn't seem to have an effect in publishing media like: Top Gun movies and the America's Army videogame. Not sure how the VoA programming looks like (sounds like I guess) but I don't think outlets for government promotion were lacking even before the act was overturned

biztos 5y ago
During the Cold War, the US government, via the United States Information Agency (USIA)[0] delivered all sorts of propaganda to our ideological adversaries, in particular communist countries. They usually tried to reach the average person and thus skew opinion in our (America's) favor. I got a glimpse of some of this because I was an exchange student in the 80's, in a program sponsored by Congress and considered relevant to said Cold War. It was pretty interesting! Plenty of eagles and big cars and class mobility, but also a lot of stuff about freedom of thought and expression. I remember at the time being quite miffed that they were not allowed to intentionally expose US citizens to any of this propaganda -- US expats were not even allowed to use the America-sponsored libraries abroad -- because it seemed like keeping it open would encourage the government to send a message that, broadly speaking, Americans agreed with. Now that I'm older, I'm not sure. I think maybe it was better for them to have a freer hand in propagandizing, without having to argue about every point in a domestic context. Nowadays, however, it's hard to imagine that secrecy working at all so it's just as well they gave up. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Information_Agency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Information_Agen...
majgr 5y ago
> America's Army videogame That was a great game. High realism, frag grenades with right range, different stance involving accuracy, shooting using iron sights. I played tons of hours on Bridge and Hospital maps.