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Yes, Russia had pushed Germany the whole way back into Berlin by 1945. Russia defeated Germany in Europe in WW2 the other allied powers basically showed up when

Yes, Russia had pushed Germany the whole way back into Berlin by 1945. Russia defeated Germany in Europe in WW2 the other allied powers basically showed up when it was all over.

Yoric 5y ago
Well, not quite. Before landing in Europe, Allies cut Germany from oil in the Middle East, which seriously helped.
mypastself 5y ago
I feel like this is a facile view of the situation, especially if you take Lend-Lease into account. The fact that U.S. schools and media tend to downplay the importance of the USSR war effort in favor of Western allies doesn’t mean we should immediately take the polar opposite stance. I’ll quote British historian Anthony Beevor (who, by the way, agrees that the Soviet Union was key in defeating Germany): “[T]he reason why the Russians got to Berlin before the Americans was quite simply that fact that it was American Dodge, Studebaker, Chevrolets and all the trucks that had been given to the Soviet Union under Lend-Lease had made their advances in '43 and especially in '44 possible. They'd never have got anywhere near it.” https://www.c-span.org/video/?306662-1/qa-antony-beevor https://www.c-span.org/video/?306662-1/qa-antony-beevor
- nosianu 5y ago
  And if the Eastern front hadn't existed Germany would have a lot more forces to fight against the channel invasion. So... nobody fought in isolation, the world always was connected, and trade and impact of what others did elsewhere always existed since there as no force field around any two parties to ensure they had a "fair" fight 1:1. Also see my other comment, about the production issue, Russian achievement is really huge: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29836874 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29836874 The US supported itself with Lend-Lease. Giving weapons to others ensured they didn't have to deal with a victorious Germany. Quoting: > David Glantz, the American military historian known for his books on the Eastern front, concludes: > Although Soviet accounts have routinely belittled the significance of Lend-Lease in the sustainment of the Soviet war effort, the overall importance of the assistance cannot be understated. Lend-Lease aid did not arrive in sufficient quantities to make the difference between defeat and victory in 1941–1942; that achievement must be attributed solely to the Soviet people and to the iron nerve of Stalin, Zhukov, Shaposhnikov, Vasilevsky, and their subordinates. As the war continued, however, the United States and Great Britain provided many of the implements of war and strategic raw materials necessary for Soviet victory. Without Lend-Lease food, clothing, and raw materials (especially metals), the Soviet economy would have been even more heavily burdened by the war effort. Perhaps most directly, without Lend-Lease trucks, rail engines, and railroad cars, every Soviet offensive would have stalled at an earlier stage, outrunning its logistical tail in a matter of days. In turn, this would have allowed the German commanders to escape at least some encirclements, while forcing the Red Army to prepare and conduct many more deliberate penetration attacks in order to advance the same distance. > Left to their own devices, Stalin and his commanders might have taken twelve to eighteen months longer to finish off the Wehrmacht; the ultimate result would probably have been the same, except that Soviet soldiers could have waded at France's Atlantic beaches. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease Interestingly this American historian seems to believe Russia would have won anyway - with grave consequences for the West.
- pietrovismara 5y ago
  Oh well, the 24 millions dead soviets thank you for the Jeeps. That definitely made a difference. What a sacrifice for America.
  - mypastself 5y ago
    You may be confusing me with FDR.
deltron3030 5y ago
I think Russia could only do it because the Brits decoded German cryptography prior leading to traps overwhelming German defenses on all fronts.
odiroot 5y ago
Too bad that Russia (and most importantly its army) stayed in this area for nearly the next 50 years.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

Yes, Russia had pushed Germany the whole way back into Berlin by 1945. Russia defeated Germany in Europe in WW2 the other allied powers basically showed up when it was all over.

Yoric 5y ago

Well, not quite. Before landing in Europe, Allies cut Germany from oil in the Middle East, which seriously helped.

mypastself 5y ago

I feel like this is a facile view of the situation, especially if you take Lend-Lease into account. The fact that U.S. schools and media tend to downplay the importance of the USSR war effort in favor of Western allies doesn’t mean we should immediately take the polar opposite stance. I’ll quote British historian Anthony Beevor (who, by the way, agrees that the Soviet Union was key in defeating Germany): “[T]he reason why the Russians got to Berlin before the Americans was quite simply that fact that it was American Dodge, Studebaker, Chevrolets and all the trucks that had been given to the Soviet Union under Lend-Lease had made their advances in '43 and especially in '44 possible. They'd never have got anywhere near it.” https://www.c-span.org/video/?306662-1/qa-antony-beevor https://www.c-span.org/video/?306662-1/qa-antony-beevor

nosianu 5y ago
And if the Eastern front hadn't existed Germany would have a lot more forces to fight against the channel invasion. So... nobody fought in isolation, the world always was connected, and trade and impact of what others did elsewhere always existed since there as no force field around any two parties to ensure they had a "fair" fight 1:1. Also see my other comment, about the production issue, Russian achievement is really huge: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29836874 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29836874 The US supported itself with Lend-Lease. Giving weapons to others ensured they didn't have to deal with a victorious Germany. Quoting: > David Glantz, the American military historian known for his books on the Eastern front, concludes: > Although Soviet accounts have routinely belittled the significance of Lend-Lease in the sustainment of the Soviet war effort, the overall importance of the assistance cannot be understated. Lend-Lease aid did not arrive in sufficient quantities to make the difference between defeat and victory in 1941–1942; that achievement must be attributed solely to the Soviet people and to the iron nerve of Stalin, Zhukov, Shaposhnikov, Vasilevsky, and their subordinates. As the war continued, however, the United States and Great Britain provided many of the implements of war and strategic raw materials necessary for Soviet victory. Without Lend-Lease food, clothing, and raw materials (especially metals), the Soviet economy would have been even more heavily burdened by the war effort. Perhaps most directly, without Lend-Lease trucks, rail engines, and railroad cars, every Soviet offensive would have stalled at an earlier stage, outrunning its logistical tail in a matter of days. In turn, this would have allowed the German commanders to escape at least some encirclements, while forcing the Red Army to prepare and conduct many more deliberate penetration attacks in order to advance the same distance. > Left to their own devices, Stalin and his commanders might have taken twelve to eighteen months longer to finish off the Wehrmacht; the ultimate result would probably have been the same, except that Soviet soldiers could have waded at France's Atlantic beaches. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease Interestingly this American historian seems to believe Russia would have won anyway - with grave consequences for the West.
pietrovismara 5y ago
Oh well, the 24 millions dead soviets thank you for the Jeeps. That definitely made a difference. What a sacrifice for America.
- mypastself 5y ago
  You may be confusing me with FDR.

deltron3030 5y ago

I think Russia could only do it because the Brits decoded German cryptography prior leading to traps overwhelming German defenses on all fronts.

odiroot 5y ago

Too bad that Russia (and most importantly its army) stayed in this area for nearly the next 50 years.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]