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I will have to say that I like the direction that the V programming language (vlang) is going. It has blended many good qualities of Oberon/Pascal, C, and Go.

by Tozen 5y ago

I will have to say that I like the direction that the V programming language (vlang) is going. It has blended many good qualities of Oberon/Pascal, C, and Go. I've read a lot of debates among C and Pascal advocates, so good to see newer languages trying to find middle ground. Debatably, the Go language has put itself somewhere in the middle, as a more modern acceptable compromise and blend with its own twists. The V language is continuing on the path of where Go went, where readability, maintainability, and simplicity is more evident. Doing so, where it feels like a more natural feature. At the end of the day, many want to be more focused on the problems to be solved, not tripping over the eccentricities and traps of the language. Clearly, perfection will probably never be achieved. But, I do like where various newer languages are going, as it shows progress. Usability, being easy to learn and teach, as well as being more practical about common programming issues.

msie 5y ago
Looks interesting! First time Ive heard of it!
- brabel 5y ago
  Beware V is infamous for severely overpromising on its website while most of the features it lists are not even started yet. A few years ago it was heatly discussed on HN... Most people seem to agree V is a textbook example of vaporware[1]. [1] https://christine.website/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 https://christine.website/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23
  - Tozen 5y ago
    It's 2022 now. They've had 82 releases on GitHub and are in continuous development.
    - gompertz 5y ago
      Agreed. I'm sick of people referencing that damn website from 2.5 years ago. It's not vaporware whatsoever... It has over 12k github commits FFS. It's an excellent language and has a great community on Discord of excellent people. Frankly the more I read on HN the more I think Zig, Nim, (possibly Rust) supporters here are rather toxic to the community.
      - brabel 5y ago
        Hey, I am not a supporter or hater of any language... if the claims made back then are no longer correct, just point it out by writing a blog post showing how much progress has been made and how the claims made on the website are now all accurate... you don't just get trust back automatically because you're working hard on the problem... you need to show how you've addressed the issues, how each claim you made on the website is now provably true, and why we should believe you to not be lying again when clearly, you lied before.
Zababa 5y ago
V is still vaporware at this point, most of the claims on the website are just not true. For example, the "coreutils" example is just filled with folders containing "delete.me" files, with no actual code.
- Tozen 5y ago
  Clearly, you haven't looked more deeply. Download and play with it. To familiarize yourself, maybe better to go over: 1) documentation (https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/doc/docs.md https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/doc/docs.md) 2) documentation on modules (https://modules.vlang.io/ https://modules.vlang.io/) 3) ebook (https://www.packtpub.com/product/getting-started-with-v-programming/9781839213434 https://www.packtpub.com/product/getting-started-with-v-prog...) 4) Youtube (https://youtu.be/YpSsqRQLd4U https://youtu.be/YpSsqRQLd4U). Vaporware is about something that doesn't exist. V clearly does exist and has a number of developers and contributors working on it. I understand there was some controversy from 2019, and mostly prior to it being open sourced on GitHub. Then some lingering animosity that stayed around in 2019 and a bit of 2020. Well, that's a few years ago, and its 2022 now. better to look at what's going on in the present. Of any controversy these days, seems more about competing languages and their advocates, not liking another "new kid on the block" or wanting to protect their interests. But, such is the usual between programming languages. I'm talking more from the perspective of how various languages are designed for greater convenience, simplicity, and usability.
  - Zababa 5y ago
    I will not download and play around with the language made by people that still keep fake claims on their websites. If V was more honest, I would myself give it an honest try. It isn't. Some other examples of false claims: > V functions are pure by default, meaning that their return values are a function of their arguments only, and their evaluation has no side effects (besides I/O). > This is achieved by a lack of global variables and all function arguments being immutable by default, even when references are passed. But there is nothing preventing you to create side effects. A function making a side effect isn't pure. For example, Wikipedia [1] says that the return value depending only on input variables is necessary, but you also need no side effects. The claim about Option and Result types [2] is also a bit weird. It feels closer to Zig's error handling than to regular Option and Result types. An important part of these types is that they can be replaced by user-made types without losing much, while in V they seem to rely a lot on compiler support. In the comparaison with Go [3], there is a "No GC". On the main page, "Most objects (~90-100%) are freed by V's autofree engine: the compiler inserts necessary free calls automatically during compilation. Remaining small percentage of objects is freed via GC.". "There's also an option to use GC for everything via v -gc boehm.". This is just the beginning. I don't have any trust in the people behind V and will not rely on them for building software. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_function https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_function [2]: https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/doc/docs.md#optionresult-types-and-error-handling https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/doc/docs.md#optionres... [3]: https://vlang.io/compare#go https://vlang.io/compare#go
mikewarot 5y ago
No global variables? That's a hell of a price to pay. := is used for assignment, as is = ??? Yikes Immutable strings - How do you pull the first character out from a line? The horror, the horror!

by Tozen 5y ago

msie 5y ago

Looks interesting! First time Ive heard of it!

brabel 5y ago
Beware V is infamous for severely overpromising on its website while most of the features it lists are not even started yet. A few years ago it was heatly discussed on HN... Most people seem to agree V is a textbook example of vaporware[1]. [1] https://christine.website/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23 https://christine.website/blog/v-vaporware-2019-06-23
- Tozen 5y ago
  It's 2022 now. They've had 82 releases on GitHub and are in continuous development.
  - gompertz 5y ago
    Agreed. I'm sick of people referencing that damn website from 2.5 years ago. It's not vaporware whatsoever... It has over 12k github commits FFS. It's an excellent language and has a great community on Discord of excellent people. Frankly the more I read on HN the more I think Zig, Nim, (possibly Rust) supporters here are rather toxic to the community.
    - brabel 5y ago
      Hey, I am not a supporter or hater of any language... if the claims made back then are no longer correct, just point it out by writing a blog post showing how much progress has been made and how the claims made on the website are now all accurate... you don't just get trust back automatically because you're working hard on the problem... you need to show how you've addressed the issues, how each claim you made on the website is now provably true, and why we should believe you to not be lying again when clearly, you lied before.

Zababa 5y ago

V is still vaporware at this point, most of the claims on the website are just not true. For example, the "coreutils" example is just filled with folders containing "delete.me" files, with no actual code.

Tozen 5y ago
Clearly, you haven't looked more deeply. Download and play with it. To familiarize yourself, maybe better to go over: 1) documentation (https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/doc/docs.md https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/doc/docs.md) 2) documentation on modules (https://modules.vlang.io/ https://modules.vlang.io/) 3) ebook (https://www.packtpub.com/product/getting-started-with-v-programming/9781839213434 https://www.packtpub.com/product/getting-started-with-v-prog...) 4) Youtube (https://youtu.be/YpSsqRQLd4U https://youtu.be/YpSsqRQLd4U). Vaporware is about something that doesn't exist. V clearly does exist and has a number of developers and contributors working on it. I understand there was some controversy from 2019, and mostly prior to it being open sourced on GitHub. Then some lingering animosity that stayed around in 2019 and a bit of 2020. Well, that's a few years ago, and its 2022 now. better to look at what's going on in the present. Of any controversy these days, seems more about competing languages and their advocates, not liking another "new kid on the block" or wanting to protect their interests. But, such is the usual between programming languages. I'm talking more from the perspective of how various languages are designed for greater convenience, simplicity, and usability.
- Zababa 5y ago
  I will not download and play around with the language made by people that still keep fake claims on their websites. If V was more honest, I would myself give it an honest try. It isn't. Some other examples of false claims: > V functions are pure by default, meaning that their return values are a function of their arguments only, and their evaluation has no side effects (besides I/O). > This is achieved by a lack of global variables and all function arguments being immutable by default, even when references are passed. But there is nothing preventing you to create side effects. A function making a side effect isn't pure. For example, Wikipedia [1] says that the return value depending only on input variables is necessary, but you also need no side effects. The claim about Option and Result types [2] is also a bit weird. It feels closer to Zig's error handling than to regular Option and Result types. An important part of these types is that they can be replaced by user-made types without losing much, while in V they seem to rely a lot on compiler support. In the comparaison with Go [3], there is a "No GC". On the main page, "Most objects (~90-100%) are freed by V's autofree engine: the compiler inserts necessary free calls automatically during compilation. Remaining small percentage of objects is freed via GC.". "There's also an option to use GC for everything via v -gc boehm.". This is just the beginning. I don't have any trust in the people behind V and will not rely on them for building software. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_function https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pure_function [2]: https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/doc/docs.md#optionresult-types-and-error-handling https://github.com/vlang/v/blob/master/doc/docs.md#optionres... [3]: https://vlang.io/compare#go https://vlang.io/compare#go

mikewarot 5y ago

No global variables? That's a hell of a price to pay. := is used for assignment, as is = ??? Yikes Immutable strings - How do you pull the first character out from a line? The horror, the horror!