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So, I admit I didn't last all through this article, but there was a mention of titanium. I assume rare metals are needed to build a mechanism that is durable en

by troels 15y ago

So, I admit I didn't last all through this article, but there was a mention of titanium. I assume rare metals are needed to build a mechanism that is durable enough to last 10.000 years. But how are they going to deal with the fact that rare metals are also very desirable? I can guarantee that it won't take 10.000 years for someone to steal it and repurpose it.

AngryParsley 15y ago
The clock is mostly stainless steel, and it will live in a cave in a rather remote location. If civilization collapses in the future, there will be much easier things to steal. If they really wanted to prevent theft, the builders could alloy the metals with something poisonous or radioactive. But that's harder than it sounds. Not much stuff stays dangerous for 10,000 years. If I were in charge, I'd build some cool Indiana Jones-esque traps. :)
- gwern 15y ago
  > If they really wanted to prevent theft, the builders could alloy the metals with something poisonous or radioactive. But that's harder than it sounds. I'd also point out that such a technique would run opposite Long Now's goal of having visitors - I mean, it's hard to build a clock that lasts 10k years, hard to contain radioactive materials in casks buried underground in salt flats for 10k years, how much harder would it be to do both simultaneously?
- pjscott 15y ago
  They want people to come in and periodically wind the peripheral parts of the clock. That's kind of incompatible with building an Indiana Jones dungeon. Actually, you know what? Forget about clocks. I want to know how we can make elaborate dungeon traps last thousands of years.
CurtHagenlocher 15y ago
Are you implying that titanium is rare? It's the ninth most common element in the earth's crust.
- troels 15y ago
  It's rare in its pure form though, as far as I'm aware. And I guess even steel has some value. Point being that over 10.000 years (heck, let's just say over 100 years), someone is going to tear that thing apart and use the components for some thing else.
- Luyt 15y ago
  But also: The processes required to extract titanium from its various ores are laborious and costly (WikiPedia)
tekacs 15y ago
Given that the majority of Titanium's cost is in its processing, its cost is pegged to that of electricity, in a way - should we improve our energy tech (something that we're undoubtedly going to be working on for a while yet) the cost of Titanium should drop with every breakthrough - by any time that one could steal those metal components they may very well be cheap to manufacture...

by troels 15y ago

AngryParsley 15y ago

The clock is mostly stainless steel, and it will live in a cave in a rather remote location. If civilization collapses in the future, there will be much easier things to steal. If they really wanted to prevent theft, the builders could alloy the metals with something poisonous or radioactive. But that's harder than it sounds. Not much stuff stays dangerous for 10,000 years. If I were in charge, I'd build some cool Indiana Jones-esque traps. :)

gwern 15y ago
> If they really wanted to prevent theft, the builders could alloy the metals with something poisonous or radioactive. But that's harder than it sounds. I'd also point out that such a technique would run opposite Long Now's goal of having visitors - I mean, it's hard to build a clock that lasts 10k years, hard to contain radioactive materials in casks buried underground in salt flats for 10k years, how much harder would it be to do both simultaneously?
pjscott 15y ago
They want people to come in and periodically wind the peripheral parts of the clock. That's kind of incompatible with building an Indiana Jones dungeon. Actually, you know what? Forget about clocks. I want to know how we can make elaborate dungeon traps last thousands of years.

CurtHagenlocher 15y ago

Are you implying that titanium is rare? It's the ninth most common element in the earth's crust.

troels 15y ago
It's rare in its pure form though, as far as I'm aware. And I guess even steel has some value. Point being that over 10.000 years (heck, let's just say over 100 years), someone is going to tear that thing apart and use the components for some thing else.
Luyt 15y ago
But also: The processes required to extract titanium from its various ores are laborious and costly (WikiPedia)

tekacs 15y ago

Given that the majority of Titanium's cost is in its processing, its cost is pegged to that of electricity, in a way - should we improve our energy tech (something that we're undoubtedly going to be working on for a while yet) the cost of Titanium should drop with every breakthrough - by any time that one could steal those metal components they may very well be cheap to manufacture...