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You don't need to lie. There's nothing wrong with saying "My current salary is $xxxxx, but I feel that my employer undervalues my skills so I want $yyyyyy. It's

You don't need to lie. There's nothing wrong with saying "My current salary is $xxxxx, but I feel that my employer undervalues my skills so I want $yyyyyy. It's why I'm leaving my current role." There is no reason why your future salary has to be based on your current salary. If the employer you're negotiating with disagrees then walking away is the best option because they undervalue your skills too.

kmonsen 5y ago
Then they will just offer something in the middle and try to talk you into it. That being said, at least for the big companies the initial salary is not that important. In some ways you are just setting yourself up for disappointment since if you start at the top of the band there will be no significant raises without a promotion. For RSUs it has a pretty significant effect for 4 years though.
- onion2k 5y ago
  Then they will just offer something in the middle and try to talk you into it. You can always say no. In some ways you are just setting yourself up for disappointment since if you start at the top of the band there will be no significant raises without a promotion. It sounds like you're saying starting at 80% of the band so you can enjoy a 25% raise to get to the top is better than just starting at the top. That doesn't make sense though.
  - kmonsen 5y ago
    Sure, of course it is in some was better to start at 100%. The problem is that we all still expect to get a raise, and that cannot happen at a big company if it would take you out of band. I don't think there are many exceptions to this. If they really like you they might throw some RSUs at you, but very likely will not go over the salary for that band. So unless you think you can get promoted right away (which requires significant luck as well), I think for long term happiness it is actually better to get salary on 80% and negotiate more on the initial RSU grant.
Dave_Rosenthal 5y ago
In practice future salaries are heavily based on current ones because that is what the new employer is de facto negotiating against. Very few people, in my experience, are willing to entertain a new job with a salary much lower than their last one. And very few employers are willing to 'leave money on the table' and offer more than they think they need to close the candidate simply because the candidate thinks they have 'mad skillz'. If you want to actually get paid more, get two competing offers. Or you can try the strategy of not lying and just telling the new employer, 'I'm not going to tell you my previous salary.' The downside is that this clearly signals to the employer that you weren't making very much before and you are fishing for a big raise. This kind of goes against conventional wisdom, but I actually don't think that switching jobs is the strongest time to ask for more money. I think it's after you have gotten into a role, are killing it, and adding crazy value to the company. That's when you actually have a lot of leverage to say 'hey, I love what I'm doing here and I should be paid a lot more'.
- doix 5y ago
  > This kind of goes against conventional wisdom, but I actually don't think that switching jobs is the strongest time to ask for more money. I think it's after you have gotten into a role, are killing it, and adding crazy value to the company. That's when you actually have a lot of leverage to say 'hey, I love what I'm doing here and I should be paid a lot more'. Out of curiosity, has that worked for you? My previous employer only gave me a significant raise after I threatened to quit (with an offer waiting at another company). I ended up doing it a few times. Eventually I got tired of constantly interviewing and threatening to quit and did a sideways move to a YC backed company. Total comp is about the same, maybe slightly lower, but maybe the stocks will pay out some day :D. Being fully remote is a nice perk though.
  - Dave_Rosenthal 5y ago
    Yes, it's both worked for me and I've also managed many, many people in orgs who have proven very valuable to the company and had their comp doubled or more. Most people are not bold enough in negotiation for their own good once they are entrenched at a company. You need to create a relationship with the person who can make such a thing happen. If it's not your direct boss, then find the person up the food chain who can make such a thing happen.

kmonsen 5y ago

Then they will just offer something in the middle and try to talk you into it. That being said, at least for the big companies the initial salary is not that important. In some ways you are just setting yourself up for disappointment since if you start at the top of the band there will be no significant raises without a promotion. For RSUs it has a pretty significant effect for 4 years though.

onion2k 5y ago
Then they will just offer something in the middle and try to talk you into it. You can always say no. In some ways you are just setting yourself up for disappointment since if you start at the top of the band there will be no significant raises without a promotion. It sounds like you're saying starting at 80% of the band so you can enjoy a 25% raise to get to the top is better than just starting at the top. That doesn't make sense though.
- kmonsen 5y ago
  Sure, of course it is in some was better to start at 100%. The problem is that we all still expect to get a raise, and that cannot happen at a big company if it would take you out of band. I don't think there are many exceptions to this. If they really like you they might throw some RSUs at you, but very likely will not go over the salary for that band. So unless you think you can get promoted right away (which requires significant luck as well), I think for long term happiness it is actually better to get salary on 80% and negotiate more on the initial RSU grant.

Dave_Rosenthal 5y ago

In practice future salaries are heavily based on current ones because that is what the new employer is de facto negotiating against. Very few people, in my experience, are willing to entertain a new job with a salary much lower than their last one. And very few employers are willing to 'leave money on the table' and offer more than they think they need to close the candidate simply because the candidate thinks they have 'mad skillz'. If you want to actually get paid more, get two competing offers. Or you can try the strategy of not lying and just telling the new employer, 'I'm not going to tell you my previous salary.' The downside is that this clearly signals to the employer that you weren't making very much before and you are fishing for a big raise. This kind of goes against conventional wisdom, but I actually don't think that switching jobs is the strongest time to ask for more money. I think it's after you have gotten into a role, are killing it, and adding crazy value to the company. That's when you actually have a lot of leverage to say 'hey, I love what I'm doing here and I should be paid a lot more'.

doix 5y ago
> This kind of goes against conventional wisdom, but I actually don't think that switching jobs is the strongest time to ask for more money. I think it's after you have gotten into a role, are killing it, and adding crazy value to the company. That's when you actually have a lot of leverage to say 'hey, I love what I'm doing here and I should be paid a lot more'. Out of curiosity, has that worked for you? My previous employer only gave me a significant raise after I threatened to quit (with an offer waiting at another company). I ended up doing it a few times. Eventually I got tired of constantly interviewing and threatening to quit and did a sideways move to a YC backed company. Total comp is about the same, maybe slightly lower, but maybe the stocks will pay out some day :D. Being fully remote is a nice perk though.
- Dave_Rosenthal 5y ago
  Yes, it's both worked for me and I've also managed many, many people in orgs who have proven very valuable to the company and had their comp doubled or more. Most people are not bold enough in negotiation for their own good once they are entrenched at a company. You need to create a relationship with the person who can make such a thing happen. If it's not your direct boss, then find the person up the food chain who can make such a thing happen.