4 ms·

Celebrity fascination tied to lower intelligence

105 points by RickJWagner 5y ago

changoplatanero 5y ago
What about if you are only fascinated by foreign celebrities?
- perrohunter 5y ago
  Same?
- TingPing 5y ago
  Then you should talk to a therapist?
casion 5y ago
Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. This feels much too close to pop science to be believable.
- starwind 5y ago
  I always chuckle when I see something like "small minds discuss people" cause it's a statement about people
- aerojoe23 5y ago
  "Great minds discuss ideas" This is what I tell myself when I don't who people are talking about.
- xwdv 5y ago
  Powerful minds discuss execution.
  - beckingz 5y ago
    legendary minds discuss logistics.
Jorengarenar 5y ago
Title of the post is very misleading. The article uses word "worship", while "fascination" not even once. You can be fascinated by something in healthy bounds.
- daxuak 5y ago
  Also note: the background section mentioned that this topic has been studied for some time (20 years), with largely mixed outcomes. I would guess that the conclusion is quite sensitive to the adopted methodology.
- wahern 5y ago
  > You can be fascinated by something in healthy bounds The same could be said of worship, whether "celebrity worship" or otherwise. But in any event the paper is merely exploring aggregate correlations, not positing a mutually exclusive relationship.
  - nfw2 5y ago
    Worship implies an extreme degree of fascination if not used literally in a religious sense. To say someone "worships" a celebrity suggests that person acts similarly to how they would act if that person was a deity.
syntaxfree 5y ago
Those R-squareds are really low.
paulcole 5y ago
I’m nearly 40 and am a huge follower of celebrity culture and have been since I was in high school. I listen to a few really good pop culture podcasts and it’s a part of my life I get a kick out of. Celebrities are just interesting to me and I like learning about them, the clothes they wear, where they live, what their lives are like, etc. Maybe it’s daydreaming about what it’s like to have a different life? Who knows? But it’s a fun way to spend my time. And to be honest, all of my time is just frittered away so it doesn’t really matter what I do with it. But to be fair, I’m also quite dumb (check my comment history for confirmation).
- xeromal 5y ago
  Hahaha. I love this comment. No one ever things their "that guy", but being self-aware probably puts you ahead of a ton of people and I bet you're not dumb.
- xupybd 5y ago
  I did go through your comments and read the one about your mother. My dad passed of cancer yesterday. It was a lovely comment that helped.
- devmunchies 5y ago
  In a similar vein I’d avoided all Marvel movies for years but just binged over the holidays. I get the allure, I found myself geeking out over the characters and actors. But I think it’s better for me to “visit” since I’ve been guilty of entertainment gluttony in the past and start missing life goals.
- mrintellectual 5y ago
  I think this paper is more about being fascinated with a particular celebrity rather than celebrity culture in general. Also took a look at your comment history - there isn't anything in there that would make me think you're dumb. Appreciate your forthrightness though.
Wohlf 5y ago
Based on the methodology this should not be used to draw conclusions, this study is at best an indicator to conduct further research on the topic. The title of this post is too strong for the conclusions: > These findings *suggest* that there is a direct association between celebrity worship and poorer performance on the cognitive tests that cannot be accounted for by demographic and socioeconomic factors.
andrewclunn 5y ago
Apparently this is how they judged how "into celebrities" a person was. I mean these questions seem geared toward the "creepy obsession with a celebrity" approach, which is hardly the same as thing as "public figures I follow online, respect, or who's work I enjoy" and also completely different from the "I read the tabloids and follow celebrity gossip" types. So not sure that's really what most people think of based on the title: https://www.scribd.com/document/356931328/Celebrity-Attitude-Scale https://www.scribd.com/document/356931328/Celebrity-Attitude...
nexuist 5y ago
The discussion here seems to be going well, but on other places on the Internet I have only seen this study referenced to reinforce some kind of group superiority complex. It's kind of gross to think that other people are stupid for caring about people you don't care about.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
TrackerFF 5y ago
But that excludes tech celebrities, right? right?
xeromal 5y ago
I'm fascinated with my turds. I wonder what that makes me?
- xupybd 5y ago
  I think there term is a fecalpheliac.
  - selimthegrim 5y ago
    *coprophiliac
- geodel 5y ago
  Seems about same thing, since so many celebrities are indeed turds.
  - xeromal 5y ago
    Exactly. Seems no one liked my comment. I know we're supposed to be serious on HN but this was a dumb post anyways.
- devmunchies 5y ago
  There’s actually a whole community fascinated with your turds at https://xeromal-dumps.com https://xeromal-dumps.com
- FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
  Slavoj Žižek has a joke about this. His answer would be: "German".
photochemsyn 5y ago
My theory about celebrity culture is that it is deliberately attempting to replace normal human interactions ('normal' being something like pre-industrial village society, where most people knew the same ~100 people or so for much of their lives) with a media-constructed social circle of 'celebrity influencers' of similar size. For this to work, one has to consume a lot of entertainment media, which likely uses a limited vocabulary and very little if any symbolic logic (the intelligence tests in this study used these two characteristics). For maximum dystopian creepiness, imagine a 'personalized celebrity-based AI chatbot community' for such people... programmed with the correct opinions on all matters.
- beckman466 5y ago
  > My theory about celebrity culture is that it is deliberately attempting to replace normal human interactions have you heard of the term 'parasocial relationship'? https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/parasocial-relationships-online-cancelling-bon-appetit https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/parasocial-relationships-on...
  - photochemsyn 5y ago
    So there's a word for it, since 1956? Interesting link, thanks for the info.
danans 5y ago
Presumably the study was focused on worship of celebrities in the entertainment industry, i.e. movie stars. One wonders if the same pattern applies to worship of celebrities in non-entertainment industries, like tech. However, IMO tech celebrity worshipers are more like zealous religious followers than movie star worshipers. I guess we've known that since the early days of personal computing, though. Even the early marketing was built around that tendency (i.e. the 1984 Apple ad).
JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
My theory is celebrity worship is a substitute for kings and royalty fetishization which is a substitute for tribal chieftain fetishization and worship. We don’t even know our own relatives that well anymore yet my Mom seems to know all this bizarre stuff about Kate Middleton and we live in America. People seem to crave gossip so they can discuss archetypes.
beckman466 5y ago
"The problem with western civilization is the oedipal complex [...] Very briefly, the Oedipal complex shows up in the way people orally fixate to external sources of authority, suckling on their (president's/sports team's/teacher's/guru's/celebrity's/corporation's) ego instead of moving the locus of authority within themselves. This practice forms many incomplete people into a transpersonal blob, collapsing individual autonomy into a flow of resources to, energetic investment to (emotional/advertising/replicative), and political assent to being ruled by, and moreover becoming literally a part of, the authority." https://www.reddit.com/r/sorceryofthespectacle/comments/5sd92y/team_briefing_2017/ https://www.reddit.com/r/sorceryofthespectacle/comments/5sd9...
izzydata 5y ago
I've been trying to tell people how strange parasocial relationships were for over a decade now. Caring about the personal lives of strangers is just baffling.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dieg0 5y ago
Monuments are awesome, they are great for stories to be told, and for remembrance of long past peoples and events. But placing anyone alive on a pedestal isn't healthy. Worst even placing oneself on a pedestal. Not sure if there are studies on this, but all my life I've seen an exaggerated fascination regarding musicians, actors, entrepreneurs, politicians, sports players or journalists. I've felt it myself, but the older I get, the more I try to exchange fascination for moderate respect. But I'm not alone on this, people care about other people, for the wrong and correct reasons. We all are looking for our identity, and usually look for traces of it in other people. IMHO this is the greatest problem of our time. Perhaps it has always been a problem, but a more obvious one now that we are all connected. Anyhow, I wrote this as context for my own thesis: "Fascination with celebrities doesn't have to do with intelligence", it is narcissism and loneliness rolled into a single expression. As evidence I've seen plenty of smart people fascinated with Elon Musk, Angela Merkel or Queen Elizabeth II. Important topic, that needs to be talked, but I feel moving it to the realm of "smart people vs fools" is very unproductive, and basically missing the point.

105 points by RickJWagner 5y ago

changoplatanero 5y ago

What about if you are only fascinated by foreign celebrities?

perrohunter 5y ago
Same?
TingPing 5y ago
Then you should talk to a therapist?

casion 5y ago

Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people. This feels much too close to pop science to be believable.

starwind 5y ago
I always chuckle when I see something like "small minds discuss people" cause it's a statement about people
aerojoe23 5y ago
"Great minds discuss ideas" This is what I tell myself when I don't who people are talking about.
xwdv 5y ago
Powerful minds discuss execution.
- beckingz 5y ago
  legendary minds discuss logistics.

Jorengarenar 5y ago

Title of the post is very misleading. The article uses word "worship", while "fascination" not even once. You can be fascinated by something in healthy bounds.

daxuak 5y ago
Also note: the background section mentioned that this topic has been studied for some time (20 years), with largely mixed outcomes. I would guess that the conclusion is quite sensitive to the adopted methodology.
wahern 5y ago
> You can be fascinated by something in healthy bounds The same could be said of worship, whether "celebrity worship" or otherwise. But in any event the paper is merely exploring aggregate correlations, not positing a mutually exclusive relationship.
- nfw2 5y ago
  Worship implies an extreme degree of fascination if not used literally in a religious sense. To say someone "worships" a celebrity suggests that person acts similarly to how they would act if that person was a deity.

syntaxfree 5y ago

Those R-squareds are really low.

paulcole 5y ago

I’m nearly 40 and am a huge follower of celebrity culture and have been since I was in high school. I listen to a few really good pop culture podcasts and it’s a part of my life I get a kick out of. Celebrities are just interesting to me and I like learning about them, the clothes they wear, where they live, what their lives are like, etc. Maybe it’s daydreaming about what it’s like to have a different life? Who knows? But it’s a fun way to spend my time. And to be honest, all of my time is just frittered away so it doesn’t really matter what I do with it. But to be fair, I’m also quite dumb (check my comment history for confirmation).

xeromal 5y ago
Hahaha. I love this comment. No one ever things their "that guy", but being self-aware probably puts you ahead of a ton of people and I bet you're not dumb.
xupybd 5y ago
I did go through your comments and read the one about your mother. My dad passed of cancer yesterday. It was a lovely comment that helped.
devmunchies 5y ago
In a similar vein I’d avoided all Marvel movies for years but just binged over the holidays. I get the allure, I found myself geeking out over the characters and actors. But I think it’s better for me to “visit” since I’ve been guilty of entertainment gluttony in the past and start missing life goals.
mrintellectual 5y ago
I think this paper is more about being fascinated with a particular celebrity rather than celebrity culture in general. Also took a look at your comment history - there isn't anything in there that would make me think you're dumb. Appreciate your forthrightness though.

Wohlf 5y ago

Based on the methodology this should not be used to draw conclusions, this study is at best an indicator to conduct further research on the topic. The title of this post is too strong for the conclusions: > These findings *suggest* that there is a direct association between celebrity worship and poorer performance on the cognitive tests that cannot be accounted for by demographic and socioeconomic factors.

andrewclunn 5y ago

Apparently this is how they judged how "into celebrities" a person was. I mean these questions seem geared toward the "creepy obsession with a celebrity" approach, which is hardly the same as thing as "public figures I follow online, respect, or who's work I enjoy" and also completely different from the "I read the tabloids and follow celebrity gossip" types. So not sure that's really what most people think of based on the title: https://www.scribd.com/document/356931328/Celebrity-Attitude-Scale https://www.scribd.com/document/356931328/Celebrity-Attitude...

nexuist 5y ago

The discussion here seems to be going well, but on other places on the Internet I have only seen this study referenced to reinforce some kind of group superiority complex. It's kind of gross to think that other people are stupid for caring about people you don't care about.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

TrackerFF 5y ago

But that excludes tech celebrities, right? right?

xeromal 5y ago

I'm fascinated with my turds. I wonder what that makes me?

xupybd 5y ago
I think there term is a fecalpheliac.
- selimthegrim 5y ago
  *coprophiliac
geodel 5y ago
Seems about same thing, since so many celebrities are indeed turds.
- xeromal 5y ago
  Exactly. Seems no one liked my comment. I know we're supposed to be serious on HN but this was a dumb post anyways.
devmunchies 5y ago
There’s actually a whole community fascinated with your turds at https://xeromal-dumps.com https://xeromal-dumps.com
FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
Slavoj Žižek has a joke about this. His answer would be: "German".

photochemsyn 5y ago

My theory about celebrity culture is that it is deliberately attempting to replace normal human interactions ('normal' being something like pre-industrial village society, where most people knew the same ~100 people or so for much of their lives) with a media-constructed social circle of 'celebrity influencers' of similar size. For this to work, one has to consume a lot of entertainment media, which likely uses a limited vocabulary and very little if any symbolic logic (the intelligence tests in this study used these two characteristics). For maximum dystopian creepiness, imagine a 'personalized celebrity-based AI chatbot community' for such people... programmed with the correct opinions on all matters.

beckman466 5y ago
> My theory about celebrity culture is that it is deliberately attempting to replace normal human interactions have you heard of the term 'parasocial relationship'? https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/parasocial-relationships-online-cancelling-bon-appetit https://www.refinery29.com/en-gb/parasocial-relationships-on...
- photochemsyn 5y ago
  So there's a word for it, since 1956? Interesting link, thanks for the info.

danans 5y ago

Presumably the study was focused on worship of celebrities in the entertainment industry, i.e. movie stars. One wonders if the same pattern applies to worship of celebrities in non-entertainment industries, like tech. However, IMO tech celebrity worshipers are more like zealous religious followers than movie star worshipers. I guess we've known that since the early days of personal computing, though. Even the early marketing was built around that tendency (i.e. the 1984 Apple ad).

JohnJamesRambo 5y ago

My theory is celebrity worship is a substitute for kings and royalty fetishization which is a substitute for tribal chieftain fetishization and worship. We don’t even know our own relatives that well anymore yet my Mom seems to know all this bizarre stuff about Kate Middleton and we live in America. People seem to crave gossip so they can discuss archetypes.

beckman466 5y ago

"The problem with western civilization is the oedipal complex [...] Very briefly, the Oedipal complex shows up in the way people orally fixate to external sources of authority, suckling on their (president's/sports team's/teacher's/guru's/celebrity's/corporation's) ego instead of moving the locus of authority within themselves. This practice forms many incomplete people into a transpersonal blob, collapsing individual autonomy into a flow of resources to, energetic investment to (emotional/advertising/replicative), and political assent to being ruled by, and moreover becoming literally a part of, the authority." https://www.reddit.com/r/sorceryofthespectacle/comments/5sd92y/team_briefing_2017/ https://www.reddit.com/r/sorceryofthespectacle/comments/5sd9...

izzydata 5y ago

I've been trying to tell people how strange parasocial relationships were for over a decade now. Caring about the personal lives of strangers is just baffling.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

dieg0 5y ago

Monuments are awesome, they are great for stories to be told, and for remembrance of long past peoples and events. But placing anyone alive on a pedestal isn't healthy. Worst even placing oneself on a pedestal. Not sure if there are studies on this, but all my life I've seen an exaggerated fascination regarding musicians, actors, entrepreneurs, politicians, sports players or journalists. I've felt it myself, but the older I get, the more I try to exchange fascination for moderate respect. But I'm not alone on this, people care about other people, for the wrong and correct reasons. We all are looking for our identity, and usually look for traces of it in other people. IMHO this is the greatest problem of our time. Perhaps it has always been a problem, but a more obvious one now that we are all connected. Anyhow, I wrote this as context for my own thesis: "Fascination with celebrities doesn't have to do with intelligence", it is narcissism and loneliness rolled into a single expression. As evidence I've seen plenty of smart people fascinated with Elon Musk, Angela Merkel or Queen Elizabeth II. Important topic, that needs to be talked, but I feel moving it to the realm of "smart people vs fools" is very unproductive, and basically missing the point.