4 ms·

Just say "no"? And do what? Lot's of folks are supporting others, or need to support themselves. "Sorry my sweet daughter, no cancer treatment this week, I s

by diob 5y ago

Just say "no"? And do what? Lot's of folks are supporting others, or need to support themselves. "Sorry my sweet daughter, no cancer treatment this week, I said no to that job." I have 0 clue why you think picky === minimum wage. It just means suppressed wages, which is highly documented. Even the big tech companies had agreements not to "poach".

WalterBright 5y ago
I've encountered companies with such agreements. They still do it, they just don't make it obvious. Cartels like that are unstable, because each party has a massive incentive to cheat on it, and the advantage accrues to you.
- DarylZero 5y ago
  That's why they organize into political groups and manipulate wages on the nation-state policy level. Owner vs. worker power struggle is always all about who can better coordinate collective action. Owners have an inherent and mostly dominating coordination advantage.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    In a free market, cartels are unstable. Cartels try to deal with this by making compliance required by law. > Owner vs. worker power struggle Oh phooey. Negotiation is inherent to a free market. It's not a power struggle. It's supply and demand.
    - DarylZero 5y ago
      > Cartels try to deal with this by making compliance required by law. That's what I'm saying. Except you have the wrong idea about stability, because the law itself is the cartel, and very stable. > It's not a power struggle. It's supply and demand. It's not supply and demand because it's about which side coordinates better! Supply and demand, the labor market, and markets generally, exist within parameters determined by political collective action. The big owners generally get their way but there is some democratic pushback.
      - WalterBright 5y ago
        > Except you have the wrong idea about stability, because the law itself is the cartel, and very stable Cartels on non-poaching are not enforced by the law. > it's about which side coordinates better That's what supply and demand is.
        DarylZero 5y ago
        I'm not thinking of things like non-poaching but things like tuning the level of social benefits in order to control the supply of labor. If the workers get too powerful, they starve them one way or another. Back in the early 20th century the socialist radicals had ideas about making one giant union of all the workers. If they could coordinate every industry they could negotiate for everything! The Labor Management Relations Act of 1947 (aka Taft-Hartley) made all such ideas quite simply illegal. If unions get too powerful, unions will be hobbled. If the market fails to deliver exploitable labor, the market will be fixed. That's the context in which negotiation occurs.
        DarylZero 5y ago
        Should have also mentioned tuning the number of H1Bs to control the supply of labor. More relevant to the audience here!
- diob 5y ago
  Literally https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29834753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29834753

by diob 5y ago

WalterBright 5y ago

I've encountered companies with such agreements. They still do it, they just don't make it obvious. Cartels like that are unstable, because each party has a massive incentive to cheat on it, and the advantage accrues to you.

DarylZero 5y ago
That's why they organize into political groups and manipulate wages on the nation-state policy level. Owner vs. worker power struggle is always all about who can better coordinate collective action. Owners have an inherent and mostly dominating coordination advantage.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  In a free market, cartels are unstable. Cartels try to deal with this by making compliance required by law. > Owner vs. worker power struggle Oh phooey. Negotiation is inherent to a free market. It's not a power struggle. It's supply and demand.
  - DarylZero 5y ago
    > Cartels try to deal with this by making compliance required by law. That's what I'm saying. Except you have the wrong idea about stability, because the law itself is the cartel, and very stable. > It's not a power struggle. It's supply and demand. It's not supply and demand because it's about which side coordinates better! Supply and demand, the labor market, and markets generally, exist within parameters determined by political collective action. The big owners generally get their way but there is some democratic pushback.
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      > Except you have the wrong idea about stability, because the law itself is the cartel, and very stable Cartels on non-poaching are not enforced by the law. > it's about which side coordinates better That's what supply and demand is.
      - DarylZero 5y ago
        I'm not thinking of things like non-poaching but things like tuning the level of social benefits in order to control the supply of labor. If the workers get too powerful, they starve them one way or another. Back in the early 20th century the socialist radicals had ideas about making one giant union of all the workers. If they could coordinate every industry they could negotiate for everything! The Labor Management Relations Act of 1947 (aka Taft-Hartley) made all such ideas quite simply illegal. If unions get too powerful, unions will be hobbled. If the market fails to deliver exploitable labor, the market will be fixed. That's the context in which negotiation occurs.
        DarylZero 5y ago
        Should have also mentioned tuning the number of H1Bs to control the supply of labor. More relevant to the audience here!
diob 5y ago
Literally https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29834753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29834753