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Ideals cannot be mapped to numerical axes. At least in present day, it's impossible to for the left/democratic quadrant to exist. If you want to limit seize the

by Aunche 5y ago

Ideals cannot be mapped to numerical axes. At least in present day, it's impossible to for the left/democratic quadrant to exist. If you want to limit seize the means of production from the likes of Elon Musk, you need a position more powerful than him. Guess where the next Elon Musk is end up in such a system? With the absence of monetary capital, greedy people seek to maximize political capital instead, creating corruption. This happens after every attempt of socialism. Democracy has only existed with a healthy private sector that keeps profit seekers out of public service. Even someone like Mitch McConnell has some interest in public service.

ModernMech 5y ago
Yes, you do need something more powerful than Elon Musk: you need the power of collective action! Without workers, the value of Tesla is comparatively nothing to what it is valued at now. Without workers, Elon Musk goes from the richest man in the world, to just a guy who owns some empty buildings and machines that don't do anything. Elon's true power is his workforce, not his money. It's true that democracies are hard to set up and maintain. We are learning that here in America right now. It seems like authoritarianism is the natural order of governments, so maybe left/authoritarianism is like a local minima: it's easy to fall into that well, hard to get out of it, but there are much better things out there if you can avoid it.
int_19h 5y ago
You don't need to seize the means of production by violence. The only reason why people can own so many in the first place, is because the state recognizes and protects their abstract property rights. For example, a person with ten titles to ten houses can only live in one of them at a time; their control of the other nine comes from the ability to call the police who'd evict any squatters - which then makes it possible to rent them out. But suppose the police wouldn't show up?

by Aunche 5y ago

ModernMech 5y ago

Yes, you do need something more powerful than Elon Musk: you need the power of collective action! Without workers, the value of Tesla is comparatively nothing to what it is valued at now. Without workers, Elon Musk goes from the richest man in the world, to just a guy who owns some empty buildings and machines that don't do anything. Elon's true power is his workforce, not his money. It's true that democracies are hard to set up and maintain. We are learning that here in America right now. It seems like authoritarianism is the natural order of governments, so maybe left/authoritarianism is like a local minima: it's easy to fall into that well, hard to get out of it, but there are much better things out there if you can avoid it.

int_19h 5y ago

You don't need to seize the means of production by violence. The only reason why people can own so many in the first place, is because the state recognizes and protects their abstract property rights. For example, a person with ten titles to ten houses can only live in one of them at a time; their control of the other nine comes from the ability to call the police who'd evict any squatters - which then makes it possible to rent them out. But suppose the police wouldn't show up?