5 ms·

My position is that after 13 years of Bitcoin and Ethereum and all cryptocurrencies I still cannot go to my local shop and buy anything with it.

haswell 5y ago
That’s an anecdote, but is your position that because of that, crypto should be banned? In 1999, you probably couldn’t use a Discover card in your local shop either, 13 years after Discover was founded. It took many years and many lawsuits to make headway against Visa/Mastercard. Universal acceptance isn’t the right measuring stick here.
- colesantiago 5y ago
  There's more to that, I would expect Bitcoin and Ethereum to be everywhere in the real world by now. I still don't see any shop around be accepting it, because the majority of people are only holding / investing in cryptocurrency. Not even PayPal is using it for payments [0] Even if a shop uses either of these cryptocurrencies, it is comically slow to be used as such anyway rendering them useless. Not to mention the volatility impact. So please tell me retail shop I can make a purchase using cryptocurrency that is fast, truly decentralised, eco-friendly and doesn't have exorbitant fees. [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58277631 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58277631
  - mthoms 5y ago
    None of what you said is a valid reason for "banning" crypto.
    - colesantiago 5y ago
      I only scratched the surface. We both know the obvious reasons that cryptocurrencies enable rampant ransomware [0], multiple rug pull scams [1], pointless NFTs [2] and is totally unregulated, I'm seeing crypto bros heralding 'we need decentralisation and web3' when this is all owned by VCs [3] And don't get me started on the Tether fraud [4]. I was being _generous_ in seeing if cryptocurrencies passes the 'retail shop test' and it can't even do that without burning the planet up making useless computations. [0] https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/us-treasury-warns-crypto-industry-preventing-sanctions-violations-2021-10-15/ https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/us-treasury-warns-c... [1] https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/12/17/defi-rug-pull-scams-pulled-in-28b-this-year-chainalysis/ https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/12/17/defi-rug-pull-sc... [2] https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3dyem/investors-spent-millions-on-evolved-apes-nfts-then-they-got-scammed https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3dyem/investors-spent-milli... [3] https://cryptobriefing.com/how-decentralized-is-solana/ https://cryptobriefing.com/how-decentralized-is-solana/ [4] https://archive.is/uPQYe https://archive.is/uPQYe
      - haswell 5y ago
        - Phone scammers are running rampant. We don't ban phones. - Spam has been a problem since the inception of email, and the majority of email is spam. We don't ban email. - Baseball cards are similarly pointless. So are in-game cosmetic items. We haven't banned those. The problems you're describing are mostly unrelated to crypto, have existed, and will continue to exist whether crypto remains. This doesn't mean there are no valid criticisms of crypto - energy concerns are real, and need to be addressed - but if you wish to ban crypto for the reasons you've cited, you need to widen the scope of what you hope to ban.
        colesantiago 5y ago
        Out of those things cryptocurrencies is more likely going to be banned anyway, only to be used for illicit activities.
        haswell 5y ago
        Are you claiming that crypto is only used for illicit activities? Care to back that up?
        colesantiago 5y ago
        Not just that, there is speculation, gambling, etc. with those two being the most used usecase, nothing else. Once banned that is where they will reside, I hear that Monero is thriving in that (illicit) environment, as well as Bitcoin, Ethereum (paired with Tornado) But for now banning is likely.
        mthoms 5y ago
        >nothing else. Come on. There are people in this very thread who are using it to evade draconian currency controls their governments have imposed. Are they lying? Whether the positives outweigh the negatives in Crypto is subject to debate. But to refuse to acknowledge that ANY positives exist is outright bizarre. There are lots of things I strongly dislike (eg: religion, guns) but to insist that there are absolutely zero positive aspects to these things in certain contexts would be intellectually dishonest.
doublerebel 5y ago
There are many shops that either accept Bitcoin or host an ATM that takes Bitcoin, and have been for several years. There are also several "credit" cards that will spend Bitcoin by turning it into a local currency -- just like when using USD cards in Europe and having them automatically convert to EUR. Last, the number of such ways to spend Bitcoin and other coins is consistently growing.
birracerveza 5y ago
I have a crypto.com card that I top up with crypto to buy things with. While I don't directly pay with crypto, I still use it to pay for things at my local shop.
- cuteboy19 5y ago
  You pay using a Visa card with a Bitcoin sticker stuck on it. I am not sure why you think you pay with cryptocurrency
  - birracerveza 5y ago
    Because I do pay with cryptocurrency.

haswell 5y ago

That’s an anecdote, but is your position that because of that, crypto should be banned? In 1999, you probably couldn’t use a Discover card in your local shop either, 13 years after Discover was founded. It took many years and many lawsuits to make headway against Visa/Mastercard. Universal acceptance isn’t the right measuring stick here.

colesantiago 5y ago
There's more to that, I would expect Bitcoin and Ethereum to be everywhere in the real world by now. I still don't see any shop around be accepting it, because the majority of people are only holding / investing in cryptocurrency. Not even PayPal is using it for payments [0] Even if a shop uses either of these cryptocurrencies, it is comically slow to be used as such anyway rendering them useless. Not to mention the volatility impact. So please tell me retail shop I can make a purchase using cryptocurrency that is fast, truly decentralised, eco-friendly and doesn't have exorbitant fees. [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58277631 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58277631
- mthoms 5y ago
  None of what you said is a valid reason for "banning" crypto.
  - colesantiago 5y ago
    I only scratched the surface. We both know the obvious reasons that cryptocurrencies enable rampant ransomware [0], multiple rug pull scams [1], pointless NFTs [2] and is totally unregulated, I'm seeing crypto bros heralding 'we need decentralisation and web3' when this is all owned by VCs [3] And don't get me started on the Tether fraud [4]. I was being _generous_ in seeing if cryptocurrencies passes the 'retail shop test' and it can't even do that without burning the planet up making useless computations. [0] https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/us-treasury-warns-crypto-industry-preventing-sanctions-violations-2021-10-15/ https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/us-treasury-warns-c... [1] https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/12/17/defi-rug-pull-scams-pulled-in-28b-this-year-chainalysis/ https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2021/12/17/defi-rug-pull-sc... [2] https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3dyem/investors-spent-millions-on-evolved-apes-nfts-then-they-got-scammed https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3dyem/investors-spent-milli... [3] https://cryptobriefing.com/how-decentralized-is-solana/ https://cryptobriefing.com/how-decentralized-is-solana/ [4] https://archive.is/uPQYe https://archive.is/uPQYe
    - haswell 5y ago
      - Phone scammers are running rampant. We don't ban phones. - Spam has been a problem since the inception of email, and the majority of email is spam. We don't ban email. - Baseball cards are similarly pointless. So are in-game cosmetic items. We haven't banned those. The problems you're describing are mostly unrelated to crypto, have existed, and will continue to exist whether crypto remains. This doesn't mean there are no valid criticisms of crypto - energy concerns are real, and need to be addressed - but if you wish to ban crypto for the reasons you've cited, you need to widen the scope of what you hope to ban.
      - colesantiago 5y ago
        Out of those things cryptocurrencies is more likely going to be banned anyway, only to be used for illicit activities.
        haswell 5y ago
        Are you claiming that crypto is only used for illicit activities? Care to back that up?
        colesantiago 5y ago
        Not just that, there is speculation, gambling, etc. with those two being the most used usecase, nothing else. Once banned that is where they will reside, I hear that Monero is thriving in that (illicit) environment, as well as Bitcoin, Ethereum (paired with Tornado) But for now banning is likely.
        mthoms 5y ago
        >nothing else. Come on. There are people in this very thread who are using it to evade draconian currency controls their governments have imposed. Are they lying? Whether the positives outweigh the negatives in Crypto is subject to debate. But to refuse to acknowledge that ANY positives exist is outright bizarre. There are lots of things I strongly dislike (eg: religion, guns) but to insist that there are absolutely zero positive aspects to these things in certain contexts would be intellectually dishonest.

doublerebel 5y ago

There are many shops that either accept Bitcoin or host an ATM that takes Bitcoin, and have been for several years. There are also several "credit" cards that will spend Bitcoin by turning it into a local currency -- just like when using USD cards in Europe and having them automatically convert to EUR. Last, the number of such ways to spend Bitcoin and other coins is consistently growing.

birracerveza 5y ago

I have a crypto.com card that I top up with crypto to buy things with. While I don't directly pay with crypto, I still use it to pay for things at my local shop.

cuteboy19 5y ago
You pay using a Visa card with a Bitcoin sticker stuck on it. I am not sure why you think you pay with cryptocurrency
- birracerveza 5y ago
  Because I do pay with cryptocurrency.