5 ms·

I don’t claim they were his only supporters but he clearly targeted them and emboldened people to say/do things that they kept suppressed. I think historians w

by syki 5y ago

I don’t claim they were his only supporters but he clearly targeted them and emboldened people to say/do things that they kept suppressed. I think historians will agree with my assessment. I could be wrong.

chiefalchemist 5y ago
That's true but the point is it an oversimplification, a fringe subset that fits a now convenient narrative. Trump targeted the discontents. Full stop. Like it or not, that's what good marketing does. Like it or not - and the status quo still refuses to admit it - those numbers are significant. Significant enough to get Trump elected. The fringe subset narrative of white supremacists is just that...spin. Unless of course all those who went for Trump in 2020 are white supremacists. That doesn't seem likely, not based on the numbers we're talking about. It's also important to realize the fact is, the same actors who push the white supremacists narrative are the same who crafted and front lined the Russian narrative, and as we know that was a lie.
- syki 5y ago
  A lot of the discontent as you put is race based. Whites soon will no longer have a majority and there is an ongoing shift in the demographics. There is a sense amongst uneducated whites and lower class whites that things aren’t right and their ire is focused at the wrong thing. There is also a rural/urban divide. As is common in America the lower classes get sidetracked by talking about race instead of class. There is anger and it is being successfully diverted from the oppressor to the “other” side. There is definitely a white nationalist backlash at a grand scale. America is changing demographically and the infrastructure is declining. Women are dominating in terms of college degrees now and in terms of graduating from college. Russia and others have done a great job at sowing dissent. Corporate media too have done a great job. Humanity is not prepared to be manipulated at the scale Facebook enables and the cost doing this manipulation is cheap. The U.S. is in a long term state of imperial decline. We are not ready for the social changes that are occurring. All of these things suggest to me that the country is ripe for authoritarianism. It just takes a demagogue with an ounce of competence to install it. Trump, fortunately, is devoid of competence and he failed. The next demagogue will likely succeed.
  - zozbot234 5y ago
    > Whites soon will no longer have a majority and there is an ongoing shift in the demographics. The "ongoing shift" narrative turns out to be quite illusory. Hispanics are increasingly joining the "white" bandwagon, so "whites" will not become a demographic minority any time soon. Yes, this also means lots of potential voters for either party: there will be no raw demographically-based prominence for either Republicans or Democrats.
    - syki 5y ago
      Well, Republicans haven’t quite shifted their views/policies enough to include Hispanics as a whole in their party. Rabiblancos (Panamanian Spanish term) are acceptable but even ones like Rafael Cruz feel the need to go by names like “Ted”. Republicans went hard for the white nationalist vote in 2016 and 2020. Can they shift enough, soon enough? I don’t know. They have a propensity - and Democrats too - to care about the next election and not long term.
  - gspetr 5y ago
    >Russia and others have done a great job at sowing dissent. This has been debunked by non-corporate journalists like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, etc. After 1.5 years of investigation, unlimited subpoena powers and 10s of millions of dollars spent, nobody can name 1 american citizen who has been convicted under the original premise of the Russiagate, which was criminally conspiring with the Kremlin to interfere in the 2016 election. EDIT: While we're at it I'll also address this comment you've made: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29776626 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29776626 >Regardless of whatever happened in the past the fact remains that the government was almost overthrown on January 6 and the instigators (the top leaders) have not been brought to justice. 700+ people are charged with crimes associated with Jan 6. Not a single one, not one has been charged with insurrection, inciting an insurrection, attempting to overthrow a government, sedition, treason, etc. They're all just common crimes: Trespassing, violent assault for the ones who used violence, interrupting government procedures/processes, etc. If this was an actual insurrection, or a seditious act, or a coup, why is the Justice Dept. under the control of the Biden administration, not William Barr or Donald Trump, not charging anybody with those crimes that are alleged to have taken place? Why are they charging them with common crimes that happen at protests and riots instead? Could it be because that was all that event was?

by syki 5y ago

chiefalchemist 5y ago

That's true but the point is it an oversimplification, a fringe subset that fits a now convenient narrative. Trump targeted the discontents. Full stop. Like it or not, that's what good marketing does. Like it or not - and the status quo still refuses to admit it - those numbers are significant. Significant enough to get Trump elected. The fringe subset narrative of white supremacists is just that...spin. Unless of course all those who went for Trump in 2020 are white supremacists. That doesn't seem likely, not based on the numbers we're talking about. It's also important to realize the fact is, the same actors who push the white supremacists narrative are the same who crafted and front lined the Russian narrative, and as we know that was a lie.

syki 5y ago
A lot of the discontent as you put is race based. Whites soon will no longer have a majority and there is an ongoing shift in the demographics. There is a sense amongst uneducated whites and lower class whites that things aren’t right and their ire is focused at the wrong thing. There is also a rural/urban divide. As is common in America the lower classes get sidetracked by talking about race instead of class. There is anger and it is being successfully diverted from the oppressor to the “other” side. There is definitely a white nationalist backlash at a grand scale. America is changing demographically and the infrastructure is declining. Women are dominating in terms of college degrees now and in terms of graduating from college. Russia and others have done a great job at sowing dissent. Corporate media too have done a great job. Humanity is not prepared to be manipulated at the scale Facebook enables and the cost doing this manipulation is cheap. The U.S. is in a long term state of imperial decline. We are not ready for the social changes that are occurring. All of these things suggest to me that the country is ripe for authoritarianism. It just takes a demagogue with an ounce of competence to install it. Trump, fortunately, is devoid of competence and he failed. The next demagogue will likely succeed.
- zozbot234 5y ago
  > Whites soon will no longer have a majority and there is an ongoing shift in the demographics. The "ongoing shift" narrative turns out to be quite illusory. Hispanics are increasingly joining the "white" bandwagon, so "whites" will not become a demographic minority any time soon. Yes, this also means lots of potential voters for either party: there will be no raw demographically-based prominence for either Republicans or Democrats.
  - syki 5y ago
    Well, Republicans haven’t quite shifted their views/policies enough to include Hispanics as a whole in their party. Rabiblancos (Panamanian Spanish term) are acceptable but even ones like Rafael Cruz feel the need to go by names like “Ted”. Republicans went hard for the white nationalist vote in 2016 and 2020. Can they shift enough, soon enough? I don’t know. They have a propensity - and Democrats too - to care about the next election and not long term.
- gspetr 5y ago
  >Russia and others have done a great job at sowing dissent. This has been debunked by non-corporate journalists like Glenn Greenwald, Matt Taibbi, etc. After 1.5 years of investigation, unlimited subpoena powers and 10s of millions of dollars spent, nobody can name 1 american citizen who has been convicted under the original premise of the Russiagate, which was criminally conspiring with the Kremlin to interfere in the 2016 election. EDIT: While we're at it I'll also address this comment you've made: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29776626 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29776626 >Regardless of whatever happened in the past the fact remains that the government was almost overthrown on January 6 and the instigators (the top leaders) have not been brought to justice. 700+ people are charged with crimes associated with Jan 6. Not a single one, not one has been charged with insurrection, inciting an insurrection, attempting to overthrow a government, sedition, treason, etc. They're all just common crimes: Trespassing, violent assault for the ones who used violence, interrupting government procedures/processes, etc. If this was an actual insurrection, or a seditious act, or a coup, why is the Justice Dept. under the control of the Biden administration, not William Barr or Donald Trump, not charging anybody with those crimes that are alleged to have taken place? Why are they charging them with common crimes that happen at protests and riots instead? Could it be because that was all that event was?