7 ms·

The ironic part is that the non-autistic people wont trust autistic peoples valuable non-biased opinions because of their bias against non-conforming people.

by Puts 5y ago

rajin444 5y ago
I had an autistic coworker who could not understand using pronouns outside of the already established ones (he/she). She was otherwise very “progressive” but didn’t consider herself such. It had to do with he/she mapping to (99% of the time) defined biological features. It was a very awkward lunch.
- whaaswijk 5y ago
  I think many people are reluctant to use non-traditional pronouns. I’m not trying to condemn or condone that, just pointing out that to me this example seems unrelated to autism.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  In fairness, using different pronouns for different genders doesn't make a lot of sense in the first place.
  - guerrilla 5y ago
    It reduces ambiguity, increasing narrowing specificity by half the room on average. I suspect that efficiency trade off showed up in so many unrelated languages because it was useful. It didn't get more specific because that wasn't useful enough. Languages evolve too.
  - readthenotes1 5y ago
    My preferred pronoun is "the majestic one with no time for the nonsense of gendered pronouns". It cannot be combined in a plural; I stand alone.
    - giraffe_lady 5y ago
      you know leftists call this "the one joke" because y'all can literally never come up with a different one when someone mentions pronouns.
      - JetAlone 5y ago
        "What are your pronouns?" >"Did this person just assume xy possessive adjectives?"
  - NaturalPhallacy 5y ago
    Sure it does. We're a sexually dimorphic species that can only reproduce with one XY and one XX. Differentiating between them is vital to the continued existence of the species. Talking with your buddies of the same gender about how you were hanging out alone with one of the opposite was a tribally significant thing in the early days of speech. It still today implies you might be mating! And babies might be forthcoming.
    - jjk166 5y ago
      We're sexually dimorphic, but linguistic gender is not based on biological sex, and sex identification is merely one of a literally infinite number of potential bits of information that one may wish to convey with language. The fact that an attractive woman in her reproductive prime is referred to with the same pronouns as your grandmother and the Titanic is indicative of how useful pronouns are for identifying who may be mating.
    - nicoburns 5y ago
      Maybe for some people? Most of my buddies are of the opposite gender, and me hanging out with one of them doesn’t imply anything different to me hanging out with someone of my own gender.
      - NaturalPhallacy 5y ago
        I mean hanging out 1 on 1 with someone of the opposite sex is how like 99.999% of new humans get created.
        nicoburns 5y ago
        Well sure, but equally 99% of hanging out with the opposite sex doesn't result in new humans being created.
      - throwaway48292 5y ago
        There are definitely people it matters to, I sometimes get tired of the usual remarks and end up awkwardly using "they" or phrasing tricks to try to avoid them
- zozbot234 5y ago
  Yes, this is exactly how most people in the U.S. and the West more generally would relate to the whole "pronouns/grammatical gender" thing. SV is a bubble.
- seba_dos1 5y ago
  Judging from how I was changing my opinion on similar matters when I was growing up, I guess she simply lacks the insight into why someone would feel the need to reject the established pronouns - she probably doesn't feel that need herself, so she doesn't have any frame of reference to be able to consider that until someone explains it to her, which makes her naturally gravitate towards seemingly unambiguous and clear grammatical rules that "make sense". I'd guess that it's pretty common for autistic people to fight concepts like singular "they" just out of the sense of maintaining linguistic order, uncorrelated with whether they actually see the need for gender-neutral and non-binary pronouns or not (which can be a source of frustrating misunderstandings that assume bad intent when there's none). For me, it only "clicked" once I understood that gender and sexuality are completely arbitrary and subjective social constructs that try to describe a whole spectrum of multidimensional behaviors and (potentially repressed) feelings, so there's little point in trying to objectively categorize them - it's all about the subjective impression of the person themself, which makes it obvious that the language should be able to actually express their identities and that it doesn't help anyone to try to force some categorization on them.
  - tonguez 5y ago
    "For me, it only "clicked" once I understood that gender and sexuality are completely arbitrary and subjective social constructs that try to describe a whole spectrum of multidimensional behaviors and (potentially repressed) feelings, so there's little point in trying to objectively categorize them - it's all about the subjective impression of the person themself" Sex is a fundamental property of living organisms; it is not determined by thoughts or feelings.
    - seba_dos1 5y ago
      Of course, but that's not really related to what I said.
      - tonguez 5y ago
        “Of course, but that's not really related to what I said.” You said sexuality is a “completely arbitrary and subjective social construct” and that “there's little point in trying to objectively categorize” it. Sex has been studied since animal husbandry existed. So what you said was obviously wrong.
- whatshisface 5y ago
  Yeah, imagine getting upset when someone with a disease almost defined by being slow on the uptake and honest about it hasn't acquired a cultural change that happened during their adulthood.
- Jensson 5y ago
  Most people agree with new pronouns etc due to peer pressure. You haven't convinced them rationally, rather you convince them that it costs more to fight the movement than just fall in line. But a person who needs rational reasons to change how they speak will be much harder to "convince", since they wont change anything until they fully buy into the new. The peer pressured group might think they did properly think it through, but mostly all you need is an appeal to authority and they fall in line.
AussieWog93 5y ago
I don't think that's a trait common to neurotypicals or any group in particular. All people lend greater trust to the opinions of others who think similarly/have similar experiences to themselves.

The ironic part is that the non-autistic people wont trust autistic peoples valuable non-biased opinions because of their bias against non-conforming people.

by Puts 5y ago

The ironic part is that the non-autistic people wont trust autistic peoples valuable non-biased opinions because of their bias against non-conforming people.

rajin444 5y ago

I had an autistic coworker who could not understand using pronouns outside of the already established ones (he/she). She was otherwise very “progressive” but didn’t consider herself such. It had to do with he/she mapping to (99% of the time) defined biological features. It was a very awkward lunch.

whaaswijk 5y ago
I think many people are reluctant to use non-traditional pronouns. I’m not trying to condemn or condone that, just pointing out that to me this example seems unrelated to autism.
nicoburns 5y ago
In fairness, using different pronouns for different genders doesn't make a lot of sense in the first place.
- guerrilla 5y ago
  It reduces ambiguity, increasing narrowing specificity by half the room on average. I suspect that efficiency trade off showed up in so many unrelated languages because it was useful. It didn't get more specific because that wasn't useful enough. Languages evolve too.
- readthenotes1 5y ago
  My preferred pronoun is "the majestic one with no time for the nonsense of gendered pronouns". It cannot be combined in a plural; I stand alone.
  - giraffe_lady 5y ago
    you know leftists call this "the one joke" because y'all can literally never come up with a different one when someone mentions pronouns.
    - JetAlone 5y ago
      "What are your pronouns?" >"Did this person just assume xy possessive adjectives?"
- NaturalPhallacy 5y ago
  Sure it does. We're a sexually dimorphic species that can only reproduce with one XY and one XX. Differentiating between them is vital to the continued existence of the species. Talking with your buddies of the same gender about how you were hanging out alone with one of the opposite was a tribally significant thing in the early days of speech. It still today implies you might be mating! And babies might be forthcoming.
  - jjk166 5y ago
    We're sexually dimorphic, but linguistic gender is not based on biological sex, and sex identification is merely one of a literally infinite number of potential bits of information that one may wish to convey with language. The fact that an attractive woman in her reproductive prime is referred to with the same pronouns as your grandmother and the Titanic is indicative of how useful pronouns are for identifying who may be mating.
  - nicoburns 5y ago
    Maybe for some people? Most of my buddies are of the opposite gender, and me hanging out with one of them doesn’t imply anything different to me hanging out with someone of my own gender.
    - NaturalPhallacy 5y ago
      I mean hanging out 1 on 1 with someone of the opposite sex is how like 99.999% of new humans get created.
      - nicoburns 5y ago
        Well sure, but equally 99% of hanging out with the opposite sex doesn't result in new humans being created.
    - throwaway48292 5y ago
      There are definitely people it matters to, I sometimes get tired of the usual remarks and end up awkwardly using "they" or phrasing tricks to try to avoid them
zozbot234 5y ago
Yes, this is exactly how most people in the U.S. and the West more generally would relate to the whole "pronouns/grammatical gender" thing. SV is a bubble.
seba_dos1 5y ago
Judging from how I was changing my opinion on similar matters when I was growing up, I guess she simply lacks the insight into why someone would feel the need to reject the established pronouns - she probably doesn't feel that need herself, so she doesn't have any frame of reference to be able to consider that until someone explains it to her, which makes her naturally gravitate towards seemingly unambiguous and clear grammatical rules that "make sense". I'd guess that it's pretty common for autistic people to fight concepts like singular "they" just out of the sense of maintaining linguistic order, uncorrelated with whether they actually see the need for gender-neutral and non-binary pronouns or not (which can be a source of frustrating misunderstandings that assume bad intent when there's none). For me, it only "clicked" once I understood that gender and sexuality are completely arbitrary and subjective social constructs that try to describe a whole spectrum of multidimensional behaviors and (potentially repressed) feelings, so there's little point in trying to objectively categorize them - it's all about the subjective impression of the person themself, which makes it obvious that the language should be able to actually express their identities and that it doesn't help anyone to try to force some categorization on them.
- tonguez 5y ago
  "For me, it only "clicked" once I understood that gender and sexuality are completely arbitrary and subjective social constructs that try to describe a whole spectrum of multidimensional behaviors and (potentially repressed) feelings, so there's little point in trying to objectively categorize them - it's all about the subjective impression of the person themself" Sex is a fundamental property of living organisms; it is not determined by thoughts or feelings.
  - seba_dos1 5y ago
    Of course, but that's not really related to what I said.
    - tonguez 5y ago
      “Of course, but that's not really related to what I said.” You said sexuality is a “completely arbitrary and subjective social construct” and that “there's little point in trying to objectively categorize” it. Sex has been studied since animal husbandry existed. So what you said was obviously wrong.
whatshisface 5y ago
Yeah, imagine getting upset when someone with a disease almost defined by being slow on the uptake and honest about it hasn't acquired a cultural change that happened during their adulthood.
Jensson 5y ago
Most people agree with new pronouns etc due to peer pressure. You haven't convinced them rationally, rather you convince them that it costs more to fight the movement than just fall in line. But a person who needs rational reasons to change how they speak will be much harder to "convince", since they wont change anything until they fully buy into the new. The peer pressured group might think they did properly think it through, but mostly all you need is an appeal to authority and they fall in line.

AussieWog93 5y ago

I don't think that's a trait common to neurotypicals or any group in particular. All people lend greater trust to the opinions of others who think similarly/have similar experiences to themselves.