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Hot take: Corporations are also amazing. James Webb mirrors? Made by a private big corp (Ball Aerospace). So are all instruments of James Webb. NASA contracts o

Hot take: Corporations are also amazing. James Webb mirrors? Made by a private big corp (Ball Aerospace). So are all instruments of James Webb. NASA contracts out their work to many big fat corporations. Semiconductors to hearing aids, Corporations make the world tick. They’re absolutely incredible. When people get together, they can build stuff like rockets and vaccines. Capitalism makes all of this happen. So the attack on capitalism is so deeply deluded, it’s strange to see it in a tech crowd who know better. Hell, your salary probably comes from “Corporations”. When you’re in the hospital, note all the corporations doing evil things to save your life.

mxkopy 5y ago
You are conflating the organization of human activity with the most dominant form of organization today. Capitalism made all of these things happen today. 50,000 years ago, were equivalent behaviors organized in a similar way? I don't think so. And to think that the space of human behavior is significantly different than it was 50,000 years ago is misguided, in my opinion.
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  Yeah, for some reason most anti-capitalists cite the bad parts of Capitalism and broad brush the entire concept. If humans can get together and collectively improve the world while feeding their families from the profits, there is no wrong doing. No one hands over profits, it’s earned and it’s a reward from the society through the mechanism of free markets. It’s probably the only thing I’d prefer to do instead of working in Academia or some other incentive structure.
  - sam0x17 5y ago
    I'm in no way against capitalism. As I say in my post, the only way forward is capitalism with extreme regulation. Without regulation, capitalism won't get you anywhere good. It should be treated like a bratty child with no moral values and poor upbringing. It has to be dragged, kicking and screaming, towards the good.
    - systemvoltage 5y ago
      Partially agree. Extreme regulation also prevents incumbents from overthrowing big fat Big Tech like monopolies. Extreme regulation hurts small businesses disproportionately. That said, without regulation, you're right - it can eat the world.
ClumsyPilot 5y ago
"So the attack on capitalism is so deeply deluded" Under Colonial powers corporations engaged in slave trade, folks that fought against slavery were fighting against capitalism, totally deluded right? Ancient Japan had corporations in year 578 A.D., where they capitalist? Fascism and Nazis had corporations, and they made great scientific progress, were they capitalist? If the answer to any of the above is no, then maybe you don't get to use 'mah Capitalism!' when defending policies of today, unless you want to be accused of hypocrisy. Economists do not use meaningless terms like 'capitalism', they talk specific, Neoliberal, Shumpeterian, etc.
- systemvoltage 5y ago
  I find it hilarious that the strongest response is about some ancient examples of centuries ago. If anything, this is a praise of the system we have today. People don’t understand Capitalism and they seem to have joined the liberal progressive bandwagon. Progressives used to be extremely pro-Capatilist movement. Until lately, and some fringe socialist ideas of Bernie Sanders, it was universally accepted. Apparently after 2020, the entire progressive movement started stomping on billionaires and corporations. There is a reason why most strong economies are capitalist. It’s the best tool we have. Also, I tend to believe the opposite of what the HN hive mind thinks. Usually the opposite is true and even if it’s not, it breaks the bandwagoning. Thanks for the response!
  - sam0x17 5y ago
    You don't seem to understand what liberal means. Liberals are pro status-quo, pro lobbyist, pro deregulation of corporations. They are the centrist monolith that stands in the way of leftists and real progressives at every corner of government. Most liberals, transplanted outside of the U.S., would be right or far right without changing their politics.
  - sam0x17 5y ago
    The strongest example is the opioid epidemic. Whoops.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago

mxkopy 5y ago

You are conflating the organization of human activity with the most dominant form of organization today. Capitalism made all of these things happen today. 50,000 years ago, were equivalent behaviors organized in a similar way? I don't think so. And to think that the space of human behavior is significantly different than it was 50,000 years ago is misguided, in my opinion.

systemvoltage 5y ago
Yeah, for some reason most anti-capitalists cite the bad parts of Capitalism and broad brush the entire concept. If humans can get together and collectively improve the world while feeding their families from the profits, there is no wrong doing. No one hands over profits, it’s earned and it’s a reward from the society through the mechanism of free markets. It’s probably the only thing I’d prefer to do instead of working in Academia or some other incentive structure.
- sam0x17 5y ago
  I'm in no way against capitalism. As I say in my post, the only way forward is capitalism with extreme regulation. Without regulation, capitalism won't get you anywhere good. It should be treated like a bratty child with no moral values and poor upbringing. It has to be dragged, kicking and screaming, towards the good.
  - systemvoltage 5y ago
    Partially agree. Extreme regulation also prevents incumbents from overthrowing big fat Big Tech like monopolies. Extreme regulation hurts small businesses disproportionately. That said, without regulation, you're right - it can eat the world.

ClumsyPilot 5y ago

"So the attack on capitalism is so deeply deluded" Under Colonial powers corporations engaged in slave trade, folks that fought against slavery were fighting against capitalism, totally deluded right? Ancient Japan had corporations in year 578 A.D., where they capitalist? Fascism and Nazis had corporations, and they made great scientific progress, were they capitalist? If the answer to any of the above is no, then maybe you don't get to use 'mah Capitalism!' when defending policies of today, unless you want to be accused of hypocrisy. Economists do not use meaningless terms like 'capitalism', they talk specific, Neoliberal, Shumpeterian, etc.

systemvoltage 5y ago
I find it hilarious that the strongest response is about some ancient examples of centuries ago. If anything, this is a praise of the system we have today. People don’t understand Capitalism and they seem to have joined the liberal progressive bandwagon. Progressives used to be extremely pro-Capatilist movement. Until lately, and some fringe socialist ideas of Bernie Sanders, it was universally accepted. Apparently after 2020, the entire progressive movement started stomping on billionaires and corporations. There is a reason why most strong economies are capitalist. It’s the best tool we have. Also, I tend to believe the opposite of what the HN hive mind thinks. Usually the opposite is true and even if it’s not, it breaks the bandwagoning. Thanks for the response!
- sam0x17 5y ago
  You don't seem to understand what liberal means. Liberals are pro status-quo, pro lobbyist, pro deregulation of corporations. They are the centrist monolith that stands in the way of leftists and real progressives at every corner of government. Most liberals, transplanted outside of the U.S., would be right or far right without changing their politics.
- sam0x17 5y ago
  The strongest example is the opioid epidemic. Whoops.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago