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For any of us corporate workers, Equifax runs a service called "The Work Number" that has, for a big group of people, every single cent you ever made, who payed

by shmatt 5y ago

For any of us corporate workers, Equifax runs a service called "The Work Number" that has, for a big group of people, every single cent you ever made, who payed it, and when I only learned about it recently. When I requested a report on my SSN, I saw every bi-weekly payment ever made to me https://theworknumber.com/solutions/industries/pre-employment-verification https://theworknumber.com/solutions/industries/pre-employmen... > Talent Report™ Income and Employment Provides verification of employment plus verification of a candidate’s income

pyuser583 5y ago
I visited the web site. When I click on My Personal Data, it gives a 403. Which is freaking hilarious.
hellisothers 5y ago
Wow, I wonder does this report equity grants? If not then at least you can still hide your total comp…
- SiNiquity 5y ago
  Depends on the employer, but in many cases yes. I have friends that work at Amazon that can confirm their RSU numbers showed up in their report.
Grazester 5y ago
How is this legal? Where do they get these numbers? You employer(I dont think so) or your employer's payment role processors?
- bmitc 5y ago
  I've began to answer, at least to myself, the question of "how is this legal?" with: it makes rich people a lot of money.
- slt2021 5y ago
  You yourself provide this info voluntarily to a bank when applying for a loan. The same bank verifies it by asking your paystubs before giving you a loan. As a rule of thunb - anything you provide to a bank for credit will be reported to credit bureau and they will sell all your personal info to the highest bidder. Or get it stolen by hackers in yet another data breach
  - yunohn 5y ago
    > You yourself provide this info voluntarily to a bank when apply for a loan. The same bank verifies it by asking your paystubs before giving you a loan. This is really harmful phrasing - blaming the individual. > when apply for a loan This seems like general population data, nothing specific to people who’ve taken loans.
    - slt2021 5y ago
      I was not trying to blame the individual, sorry if it appeared that way. Mostly it is the unique messed up american system of credit information exchange where consumers have no control over how their data gets collected/used/sold. I have never signed up an agreement with Equifax to store my personal data only to get it stolen occasionally. I wish US adopted more european centric models for personal data.
  - est31 5y ago
    Do you know where I can buy this information? It might be interesting to know how much to expect from various companies. Or do they only sell to employers?
    - est31 5y ago
      Replying to myself, there's a front page story about it now: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29834753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29834753
- SiNiquity 5y ago
  Your employer in many cases. See https://www.fastcompany.com/40485634/equifax-salary-data-and-the-work-number-database https://www.fastcompany.com/40485634/equifax-salary-data-and...
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  > You employer(I dont think so) Yes, the employer. They give data and they get access to data.
- r00fus 5y ago
  Many employers send their entire workforce's annual salary as a standard data integration field for benefit/workforce system vendors. Equifax/TWN is one of those vendors many employers use. TWN, in turn, grants these employers aggregate salary range data across companies (helping the company negotiate better deals).
- wvenable 5y ago
  Information as a two-way street; your employer provides it so that they can, in turn, get salary reports that they can use. I worked in this industry briefly; it's likely your HR department is providing tons of information to these services and then using the resulting statistics.
- gorbachev 5y ago
  Some of the companies selling this data are the ones who actually process the payroll for employers, and their contract with your employer specifically allows it.
- bongoman37 5y ago
slt2021 5y ago
There is no way they can get actual paystub data from employer or tax return data from irs. Most likely they use field Annual Income that you voluntarily provide to banks/cc companies when applying for a loan and that number is reported to Equifax. That number is verified by a lender by inspecting your W-2/paystubs when underwriting car/mortgage/other loan. So you should never voluntarily provide income info to lenders, because every bit of that info will be sold to other companies and can be used against yiu in the future
- SiNiquity 5y ago
  > There is no way they can get actual paystub data from employer Depends on your employer. Per https://www.fastcompany.com/40485634/equifax-salary-data-and-the-work-number-database https://www.fastcompany.com/40485634/equifax-salary-data-and... > Surprisingly, Facebook is among friends. Every payroll period, Amazon, Microsoft, and Oracle also provide an electronic feed of their employees’ hourly work and wage information to Equifax. So do Wal-Mart, Twitter, AT&T, Harvard Law School, and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Even Edward Snowden’s former employer, the sometimes secretive N.S.A. contractor Booz Allen Hamilton, sends salary and other personal data about its employees to Equifax Workplace Solutions.
  - slt2021 5y ago
    JFC. No words to describe this
    - spydum 5y ago
      it gets better. if you ever leave somewhere and HR dont update employment status and dates accurately with theworknumber, future employers background checks may fail, and cause hiring problems for you (it may look like you are working two jobs or lied about your history)
      - jjk166 5y ago
        Note that for the purposes of the Free Credit Reporting Act (FRCA), this is just another consumer report and you still have all the same rights you normally would, including the rights to recieve a copy of information in your file, dispute innaccuracies, and sue for damages.
SiNiquity 5y ago
You can also freeze access to it: https://employees.theworknumber.com/employee-data-freeze https://employees.theworknumber.com/employee-data-freeze
- adrr 5y ago
  Or you could submit deletion request if you live in California.
- nefitty 5y ago
  Thank you! This seems like a huge pain in the ass.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  So... Equifax wants me to email a form with my SSN on it. Sigh.
kmt 5y ago
How did you request a report for yourself? Did you create a personal account in order to access your data (via https://employees.theworknumber.com https://employees.theworknumber.com) or did you have a business account with them? If you created an personal account in order to get your data, what kind of profile data did you have to give them before you could get to what they have?
908B64B197 5y ago
> that has, for a big group of people, every single cent you ever made, who payed it, and when Even capital gains?
- BeefySwain 5y ago
  > for a big group of people
- the_pwner224 5y ago
  No.
spaetzleesser 5y ago
Wow. They have super detailed data for the last few years. The report also tells you who has requested the data. Kind of funny that you aren't supposed to share your salary but your employer does.
- bagels 5y ago
  Who says you aren't supposed to share your salary? Your employer? It's legal to share your salary, and illegal for your employer to stop you or retaliate against you in the US (unless you are in management).
  - drclau 5y ago
    I worked in two different countries in European Union, and in both as far as I can tell (ianal) it’s perfectly legal to share salary information. Labor code states what the limits of what you can do are, and also that the contract can not be more restrictive than the labor code is. However, this myth of illegality of sharing your salary information has been perpetuated by the employers to maintain an upper hand in negotiations. And it’s what keeps down the TCs in Europe, in my opinion.
    - filoleg 5y ago
      >However, this myth of illegality of sharing your salary information has been perpetuated by the employers to maintain an upper hand in negotiations. And it’s what keeps down the TCs in Europe, in my opinion. I don't think that's what keeps down the TC in Europe, because what you are describing is exactly the case in the US as well. It is 100% legal to share your comp with anyone, and it is illegal for an employer to prohibit that or fire you for it or retaliate in any other way. And yet, a giant chunk of the population lives under a myth that they can get in trouble for sharing their comp info, even when the employer doesn't insinuate so or imply that at all. I know some small employers might (illegally) try to imply that it isn't allowed (despite it being illegal, but those bosses are either ignorant or threading a fine line with the law), but I've even met some people working at FAANG-tier companies believing that sharing comp numbers is prohibited (despite FAANG-tier companies never even subtly implying that it isn't allowed).
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jkaplowitz 5y ago
NYC already prohibits employers from using salary information in setting compensation, unless the candidate voluntarily and without prompting offers that information (e.g. when the candidate thinks it will give them a higher offer). NY has a similar law at the state level as well (both apply simultaneously in NYC). They still can use a service like The Work Number to verify candidate-provided numbers as part of a post-hiring background check, with proper consent from the candidate.
jacquesm 5y ago
Hello GDPR yes, I know Equifax is in the US and the GDPR does not apply there, but this sort of abuse is why the GDPR exists. Equifax shouldn't even have that data, let alone be allowed to resell it.

by shmatt 5y ago

pyuser583 5y ago

I visited the web site. When I click on My Personal Data, it gives a 403. Which is freaking hilarious.

hellisothers 5y ago

Wow, I wonder does this report equity grants? If not then at least you can still hide your total comp…

SiNiquity 5y ago
Depends on the employer, but in many cases yes. I have friends that work at Amazon that can confirm their RSU numbers showed up in their report.

Grazester 5y ago

How is this legal? Where do they get these numbers? You employer(I dont think so) or your employer's payment role processors?

bmitc 5y ago
I've began to answer, at least to myself, the question of "how is this legal?" with: it makes rich people a lot of money.
slt2021 5y ago
You yourself provide this info voluntarily to a bank when applying for a loan. The same bank verifies it by asking your paystubs before giving you a loan. As a rule of thunb - anything you provide to a bank for credit will be reported to credit bureau and they will sell all your personal info to the highest bidder. Or get it stolen by hackers in yet another data breach
- yunohn 5y ago
  > You yourself provide this info voluntarily to a bank when apply for a loan. The same bank verifies it by asking your paystubs before giving you a loan. This is really harmful phrasing - blaming the individual. > when apply for a loan This seems like general population data, nothing specific to people who’ve taken loans.
  - slt2021 5y ago
    I was not trying to blame the individual, sorry if it appeared that way. Mostly it is the unique messed up american system of credit information exchange where consumers have no control over how their data gets collected/used/sold. I have never signed up an agreement with Equifax to store my personal data only to get it stolen occasionally. I wish US adopted more european centric models for personal data.
- est31 5y ago
  Do you know where I can buy this information? It might be interesting to know how much to expect from various companies. Or do they only sell to employers?
  - est31 5y ago
    Replying to myself, there's a front page story about it now: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29834753 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29834753
SiNiquity 5y ago
Your employer in many cases. See https://www.fastcompany.com/40485634/equifax-salary-data-and-the-work-number-database https://www.fastcompany.com/40485634/equifax-salary-data-and...
lotsofpulp 5y ago
> You employer(I dont think so) Yes, the employer. They give data and they get access to data.
r00fus 5y ago
Many employers send their entire workforce's annual salary as a standard data integration field for benefit/workforce system vendors. Equifax/TWN is one of those vendors many employers use. TWN, in turn, grants these employers aggregate salary range data across companies (helping the company negotiate better deals).
wvenable 5y ago
Information as a two-way street; your employer provides it so that they can, in turn, get salary reports that they can use. I worked in this industry briefly; it's likely your HR department is providing tons of information to these services and then using the resulting statistics.
gorbachev 5y ago
Some of the companies selling this data are the ones who actually process the payroll for employers, and their contract with your employer specifically allows it.
bongoman37 5y ago

slt2021 5y ago

There is no way they can get actual paystub data from employer or tax return data from irs. Most likely they use field Annual Income that you voluntarily provide to banks/cc companies when applying for a loan and that number is reported to Equifax. That number is verified by a lender by inspecting your W-2/paystubs when underwriting car/mortgage/other loan. So you should never voluntarily provide income info to lenders, because every bit of that info will be sold to other companies and can be used against yiu in the future

SiNiquity 5y ago
> There is no way they can get actual paystub data from employer Depends on your employer. Per https://www.fastcompany.com/40485634/equifax-salary-data-and-the-work-number-database https://www.fastcompany.com/40485634/equifax-salary-data-and... > Surprisingly, Facebook is among friends. Every payroll period, Amazon, Microsoft, and Oracle also provide an electronic feed of their employees’ hourly work and wage information to Equifax. So do Wal-Mart, Twitter, AT&T, Harvard Law School, and the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Even Edward Snowden’s former employer, the sometimes secretive N.S.A. contractor Booz Allen Hamilton, sends salary and other personal data about its employees to Equifax Workplace Solutions.
- slt2021 5y ago
  JFC. No words to describe this
  - spydum 5y ago
    it gets better. if you ever leave somewhere and HR dont update employment status and dates accurately with theworknumber, future employers background checks may fail, and cause hiring problems for you (it may look like you are working two jobs or lied about your history)
    - jjk166 5y ago
      Note that for the purposes of the Free Credit Reporting Act (FRCA), this is just another consumer report and you still have all the same rights you normally would, including the rights to recieve a copy of information in your file, dispute innaccuracies, and sue for damages.

SiNiquity 5y ago

You can also freeze access to it: https://employees.theworknumber.com/employee-data-freeze https://employees.theworknumber.com/employee-data-freeze

adrr 5y ago
Or you could submit deletion request if you live in California.
nefitty 5y ago
Thank you! This seems like a huge pain in the ass.
ceejayoz 5y ago
So... Equifax wants me to email a form with my SSN on it. Sigh.

kmt 5y ago

How did you request a report for yourself? Did you create a personal account in order to access your data (via https://employees.theworknumber.com https://employees.theworknumber.com) or did you have a business account with them? If you created an personal account in order to get your data, what kind of profile data did you have to give them before you could get to what they have?

908B64B197 5y ago

> that has, for a big group of people, every single cent you ever made, who payed it, and when Even capital gains?

BeefySwain 5y ago
> for a big group of people
the_pwner224 5y ago
No.

spaetzleesser 5y ago

Wow. They have super detailed data for the last few years. The report also tells you who has requested the data. Kind of funny that you aren't supposed to share your salary but your employer does.

bagels 5y ago
Who says you aren't supposed to share your salary? Your employer? It's legal to share your salary, and illegal for your employer to stop you or retaliate against you in the US (unless you are in management).
- drclau 5y ago
  I worked in two different countries in European Union, and in both as far as I can tell (ianal) it’s perfectly legal to share salary information. Labor code states what the limits of what you can do are, and also that the contract can not be more restrictive than the labor code is. However, this myth of illegality of sharing your salary information has been perpetuated by the employers to maintain an upper hand in negotiations. And it’s what keeps down the TCs in Europe, in my opinion.
  - filoleg 5y ago
    >However, this myth of illegality of sharing your salary information has been perpetuated by the employers to maintain an upper hand in negotiations. And it’s what keeps down the TCs in Europe, in my opinion. I don't think that's what keeps down the TC in Europe, because what you are describing is exactly the case in the US as well. It is 100% legal to share your comp with anyone, and it is illegal for an employer to prohibit that or fire you for it or retaliate in any other way. And yet, a giant chunk of the population lives under a myth that they can get in trouble for sharing their comp info, even when the employer doesn't insinuate so or imply that at all. I know some small employers might (illegally) try to imply that it isn't allowed (despite it being illegal, but those bosses are either ignorant or threading a fine line with the law), but I've even met some people working at FAANG-tier companies believing that sharing comp numbers is prohibited (despite FAANG-tier companies never even subtly implying that it isn't allowed).

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jkaplowitz 5y ago

NYC already prohibits employers from using salary information in setting compensation, unless the candidate voluntarily and without prompting offers that information (e.g. when the candidate thinks it will give them a higher offer). NY has a similar law at the state level as well (both apply simultaneously in NYC). They still can use a service like The Work Number to verify candidate-provided numbers as part of a post-hiring background check, with proper consent from the candidate.

jacquesm 5y ago

Hello GDPR yes, I know Equifax is in the US and the GDPR does not apply there, but this sort of abuse is why the GDPR exists. Equifax shouldn't even have that data, let alone be allowed to resell it.