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This is anecdata. You found one news story. Maybe you can find a handful of others. But do you have evidence that infiltration by white nationalists was a si

This is anecdata. You found one news story. Maybe you can find a handful of others. But do you have evidence that infiltration by white nationalists was a significant contributing factor to the widespread anarchy and destruction in places like Kenosha or Portland?

ashwagary 5y ago
There is video evidence of agent provocateurs setting fire to stores, one was confronted and potentially exposed as a police officer. Tbh, we are extremely lucky to have any video evidence of the sabotuers, most arent stupid enough to commit crimes on video.
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  Uh huh. So who were these agent provocateurs? Are there arrrest records, or any sort of reporting that confirms their identities? Or are you just going on rumors here?
  - ashwagary 5y ago
    >Or are you just going on rumors here? It's literally video evidence as I stated above, are you choosing to have a hard time with this on purpose? "Minneapolis 'Umbrella Man' who sparked AutoZone fire is Hells Angels member" https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapolis-umbrella-man-autozone-fire-hells-angels-police https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapolis-umbrella-man-autozone... Don't be surprised that the largest gang in America (law enforcement) supports and is heavily controlled by white supremacists (KKK, Hells Angels, The Executioners, etc... ) , many police deparment whistle blowers and undercover investigators have pointed out this fact over the years.
    - nate_meurer 5y ago
      No, the person in that video was never positively identified, and it's unclear whether there's even an open investigation. Back in Summer 2020, the police showed off a search warrant against one Mitchell Carlson, and media ran with it as proof of their whole right-wing-agitator narrative. But the police appear to have quietly dropped the matter, and nothing more came of it in the year and a half since. It's interesting that the cops released that affidavit soon after rumors started spreading that "umbrella man" was a cop. At least that problem got fixed :) So... is this really your "evidence"? I mean, sure, that could have been an outside agitator. But maybe not. You have no idea. But I suppose you can believe whatever you want. Look, I recognize that were probably some outside agitators mixed in with the BLM protesters. For example, look at the two guys that Kyle Rittenhouse killed: neither was local, and both were hardened criminals-- Joseph Rosenbaum was a convicted child rapist, and Anthony Huber was a serial domestic violence offender. Maybe these two characters had travelled to Kenosha to participate in a strictly peaceful demonstration. Maybe not. We have no direct evidence either way, so here again I suppose you can believe whatever you want. On the other hand, we have hundreds of videos of everyday trash humans looting, breaking windows, burning shit in the street. Take your pick. Here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6preTw28GWE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6preTw28GWE. How many right-wing agitators do see there? The riots in Minneapolis damaged or destroyed thousands of buildings, and some neighborhoods may never recover. Again, you're free to believe that this all the work of mysterious white supremacists or whatever, but you sure haven't given me any reason to believe one way or the other.
      - ashwagary 5y ago
        "Ivan Harrison Hunter, a Texas rightwing extremist, bragged about helping to set the fire then was seen shooting 13 rounds at the Minneapolis police department building" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/texas-boogaloo-boi-minneapolis-police-building-george-floyd https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/texas-boogaloo... >looting, breaking windows, burning shit in the street. This is obviously not comparable to white supremacists setting police departments and other businesses on fire. >you're free to believe that this all the work of mysterious white supremacists Lazily erected argument, nobody in this thread claimed "all" since the extent is unknowable...
        nate_meurer 5y ago
        LOL, you found another one, way to go! Keep going! But be aware that those Boogaloo Bois aren't quite the white supremacist provocateurs you think they are. They are genuinely anti-government, and they hate cops. This guy wasn't there to make BLM look bad. He was there to help them fuck with the police. > nobody in this thread claimed "all" since the extent is unknowable Thing is, I strongly suspect that you actually believe that. I could be wrong-- just a feeling. You seem unable to acknowledge even the possibility that the BLM protesters were themselves responsible for a significant part of the violence and destruction, and appear to be desperately clawing for stories to prop up your narrative. I on the other hand will freely admit that you might be right. Maybe the violence and destruction was significantly or even mostly the work of white supremacists, provocateures, state agents, whatever. But so far nobody including you has produced anything close to convincing. I'll keep looking though. Have fun inside your head man, I'm out.
mint2 5y ago
Do you have evidence the BlM organizers were behind the violence or intended it to occur? What percent of the many nationwide protests was it that the BLM organizers of the protests intending that to occur? Oh you’re criticizing me on data but didn’t provide the relevant statistics for your comments points. What’s more, the point I was making is that white nationalists were involved to show it was more complicated than the original poster assumed, that only takes one example. Aside from that, where were the objections to the original comments data-less claims? I see there was no comment on the trend of anti-blm views giving cops a pass on bad behavior rather than judging them similarly.
- nate_meurer 5y ago
  I'm not making speculative unsupported assertions on either side. I'm simply asking you to back up yours. It appears you have no actual evidence, apart from "one example", as you say.
  - mint2 5y ago
    Okay got it only non-confirmation bias affirming statements need support and when provided it’s discarded anyway, and comments further up the chain that agree with confirmation bias get a free pass on support.
    - nate_meurer 5y ago
      I'm open to the possibility that infiltration by white nationalists was a significant contributing factor to the widespread anarchy and destruction coincident with the BLM protests. There are a small number of unsubstantiated reports and rumors of right-wing agitators, but so far there's been no adjudicatable evidence. There haven't even been any arrests to support the rumors. You're the one who seems to be selecting anecdotes to support your preferred narrative. Your narrative might well be true, but I haven't seen any good evidence one way or the other, an it appears you don't have any to offer.
      - mint2 5y ago

ashwagary 5y ago

There is video evidence of agent provocateurs setting fire to stores, one was confronted and potentially exposed as a police officer. Tbh, we are extremely lucky to have any video evidence of the sabotuers, most arent stupid enough to commit crimes on video.

nate_meurer 5y ago
Uh huh. So who were these agent provocateurs? Are there arrrest records, or any sort of reporting that confirms their identities? Or are you just going on rumors here?
- ashwagary 5y ago
  >Or are you just going on rumors here? It's literally video evidence as I stated above, are you choosing to have a hard time with this on purpose? "Minneapolis 'Umbrella Man' who sparked AutoZone fire is Hells Angels member" https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapolis-umbrella-man-autozone-fire-hells-angels-police https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapolis-umbrella-man-autozone... Don't be surprised that the largest gang in America (law enforcement) supports and is heavily controlled by white supremacists (KKK, Hells Angels, The Executioners, etc... ) , many police deparment whistle blowers and undercover investigators have pointed out this fact over the years.
  - nate_meurer 5y ago
    No, the person in that video was never positively identified, and it's unclear whether there's even an open investigation. Back in Summer 2020, the police showed off a search warrant against one Mitchell Carlson, and media ran with it as proof of their whole right-wing-agitator narrative. But the police appear to have quietly dropped the matter, and nothing more came of it in the year and a half since. It's interesting that the cops released that affidavit soon after rumors started spreading that "umbrella man" was a cop. At least that problem got fixed :) So... is this really your "evidence"? I mean, sure, that could have been an outside agitator. But maybe not. You have no idea. But I suppose you can believe whatever you want. Look, I recognize that were probably some outside agitators mixed in with the BLM protesters. For example, look at the two guys that Kyle Rittenhouse killed: neither was local, and both were hardened criminals-- Joseph Rosenbaum was a convicted child rapist, and Anthony Huber was a serial domestic violence offender. Maybe these two characters had travelled to Kenosha to participate in a strictly peaceful demonstration. Maybe not. We have no direct evidence either way, so here again I suppose you can believe whatever you want. On the other hand, we have hundreds of videos of everyday trash humans looting, breaking windows, burning shit in the street. Take your pick. Here's one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6preTw28GWE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6preTw28GWE. How many right-wing agitators do see there? The riots in Minneapolis damaged or destroyed thousands of buildings, and some neighborhoods may never recover. Again, you're free to believe that this all the work of mysterious white supremacists or whatever, but you sure haven't given me any reason to believe one way or the other.
    - ashwagary 5y ago
      "Ivan Harrison Hunter, a Texas rightwing extremist, bragged about helping to set the fire then was seen shooting 13 rounds at the Minneapolis police department building" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/texas-boogaloo-boi-minneapolis-police-building-george-floyd https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/texas-boogaloo... >looting, breaking windows, burning shit in the street. This is obviously not comparable to white supremacists setting police departments and other businesses on fire. >you're free to believe that this all the work of mysterious white supremacists Lazily erected argument, nobody in this thread claimed "all" since the extent is unknowable...
      - nate_meurer 5y ago
        LOL, you found another one, way to go! Keep going! But be aware that those Boogaloo Bois aren't quite the white supremacist provocateurs you think they are. They are genuinely anti-government, and they hate cops. This guy wasn't there to make BLM look bad. He was there to help them fuck with the police. > nobody in this thread claimed "all" since the extent is unknowable Thing is, I strongly suspect that you actually believe that. I could be wrong-- just a feeling. You seem unable to acknowledge even the possibility that the BLM protesters were themselves responsible for a significant part of the violence and destruction, and appear to be desperately clawing for stories to prop up your narrative. I on the other hand will freely admit that you might be right. Maybe the violence and destruction was significantly or even mostly the work of white supremacists, provocateures, state agents, whatever. But so far nobody including you has produced anything close to convincing. I'll keep looking though. Have fun inside your head man, I'm out.

mint2 5y ago

Do you have evidence the BlM organizers were behind the violence or intended it to occur? What percent of the many nationwide protests was it that the BLM organizers of the protests intending that to occur? Oh you’re criticizing me on data but didn’t provide the relevant statistics for your comments points. What’s more, the point I was making is that white nationalists were involved to show it was more complicated than the original poster assumed, that only takes one example. Aside from that, where were the objections to the original comments data-less claims? I see there was no comment on the trend of anti-blm views giving cops a pass on bad behavior rather than judging them similarly.

nate_meurer 5y ago
I'm not making speculative unsupported assertions on either side. I'm simply asking you to back up yours. It appears you have no actual evidence, apart from "one example", as you say.
- mint2 5y ago
  Okay got it only non-confirmation bias affirming statements need support and when provided it’s discarded anyway, and comments further up the chain that agree with confirmation bias get a free pass on support.
  - nate_meurer 5y ago
    I'm open to the possibility that infiltration by white nationalists was a significant contributing factor to the widespread anarchy and destruction coincident with the BLM protests. There are a small number of unsubstantiated reports and rumors of right-wing agitators, but so far there's been no adjudicatable evidence. There haven't even been any arrests to support the rumors. You're the one who seems to be selecting anecdotes to support your preferred narrative. Your narrative might well be true, but I haven't seen any good evidence one way or the other, an it appears you don't have any to offer.
    - mint2 5y ago