4 ms·

> drug abuse, mental health problems, etc. are not the cause of homelessness Evidence? I'd be very interested to see the research that supports your assertion

> drug abuse, mental health problems, etc. are not the cause of homelessness Evidence? I'd be very interested to see the research that supports your assertion that mental health/ substance abuse are not significant primary causal factors to homelessness, but rather merely coincident parallel "symptoms".

jseliger 5y ago
They are a cause, but they're exacerbated by high housing prices that are in turn caused by land restrictions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29193206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29193206
dragontamer 5y ago
Even your crazed schizophrenic wants a home to sleep in. A warm bed during the cold, and a roof to keep out the rain. Its not like crazed schizophrenics are inhuman or whatever. And a home won't solve their mental problems. But getting them off the streets (by finding cheap enough housing for them to afford) solves a lot of other issues. They still have stress, both physical and mental. And that stress could be making it harder for them to deal with their mental issues. Depending on the state of their delusion, it might be possible for them to hold a job as well. Maybe you need some social-workers checking in on them depending on how bad the mental illness is, but even schizophrenics are still able to make meaningful contributions to society in the right environment (ex: John Forbes Nash Jr.). -------- The goal isn't to solve mental diseases, but to build environments where people inflicted with those mental diseases can still be of net-benefit to society. We all can agree that a __HOMELESS__ crazed schizophrinic is worse than a crazed schizophrinic, right? Solving the homeless problem is a step in the right direction, even if the delusions are unsolvable. And again: plenty of schizophrinics are high-functioning enough to check into the doctor, mental care, social workers, etc. etc. They can act independently, hold jobs and benefit society. That's probably one of the worst diseases to have but even then its not a hopeless situation.
- wahern 5y ago
  > Even your crazed schizophrenic wants a home to sleep in. Actually, no. Some crazed schizophrenics simply are unable to live in a stable environment without being coerced, precisely because their affliction effects their ability to think and behave in a manner conducive to maintaining their own health and safety. And that's just one end of an entire spectrum of distorted thinking. At the opposite end of that spectrum is... nobody, because nobody is perfectly rational. This is why we have a horrendous problem now, because too many people approach the issues by imagining themselves in these situations, imposing their own desires and fears. But that's not empathy; that's about as selfish as you can get. Empathy is about imagining yourself as another person, not imagining oneself simply physically swapping circumstances.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    Have you talked to homeless people? A lot of them just don't have enough money to get a house. Have you ever met a schizophrinic before? Its not like they're off the loony bin / completely off their rocker, its actually pretty similar to QAnon-style conspiracy theorists. They have some delusions and have difficulty accepting which facts are real or not. But that's not enough of a reason to prevent them from holding a stable job or house. ----- Have you studied John Forbes Nash Jr.? A celebrated mathematician, the one who discovered "Nash Equalibrium"? He's literally diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and never suffered from homelessness. Its not like "bam, I'm mentally unstable, lol I don't want my house anymore". That's the stuff of crappy Hollywood stories, and has no basis in reality. In most cases, any person, be they crazy / delusional / schizo / mentally sick or normal, will want a warm place to sleep and the rain out of their clothes. They'll need various amounts of care. Maybe a few drugs is sufficient to hold off their worst symptoms. Maybe socialization / keeping up with friends is what's needed. Hard to say exactly, I'm not a psychologist. But from what I've seen and experienced, mental illness is not an excuse for homelessness. Not at all. ----- Homeless people, the ones I meet and interact with, are people who don't have enough money for a home. They've been kicked out of their apartment and don't know what to do. Maybe they're crazy, maybe they're schizo as well. But even if they are, that doesn't change the fundamental issue (ie: their lack of money, their inability to afford a home right now).
themacguffinman 5y ago
https://www.bbrfoundation.org/blog/homelessness-and-mental-illness-challenge-our-society https://www.bbrfoundation.org/blog/homelessness-and-mental-i... > Most researchers agree that the connection between homelessness and mental illness is a complicated, two-way relationship. An individual’s mental illness may lead to cognitive and behavioral problems that make it difficult to earn a stable income or to carry out daily activities in ways that encourage stable housing. Several studies have shown, however, that individuals with mental illnesses often find themselves homeless primarily as the result of poverty and a lack of low-income housing. That was a summary article that lists some sources at the bottom. Aside from the research, it makes intuitive sense to me as well. Even high severity mental illness is not exclusive or close to exclusive to homeless populations. For every mental illness you find in a homeless person, you can usually find a non-homeless person who has managed it with social support and/or medication. It doesn't make sense to portray homelessness as a causal outcome of mental illness that won't be affected by social & economic policy.

jseliger 5y ago

They are a cause, but they're exacerbated by high housing prices that are in turn caused by land restrictions: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29193206 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29193206

dragontamer 5y ago

Even your crazed schizophrenic wants a home to sleep in. A warm bed during the cold, and a roof to keep out the rain. Its not like crazed schizophrenics are inhuman or whatever. And a home won't solve their mental problems. But getting them off the streets (by finding cheap enough housing for them to afford) solves a lot of other issues. They still have stress, both physical and mental. And that stress could be making it harder for them to deal with their mental issues. Depending on the state of their delusion, it might be possible for them to hold a job as well. Maybe you need some social-workers checking in on them depending on how bad the mental illness is, but even schizophrenics are still able to make meaningful contributions to society in the right environment (ex: John Forbes Nash Jr.). -------- The goal isn't to solve mental diseases, but to build environments where people inflicted with those mental diseases can still be of net-benefit to society. We all can agree that a __HOMELESS__ crazed schizophrinic is worse than a crazed schizophrinic, right? Solving the homeless problem is a step in the right direction, even if the delusions are unsolvable. And again: plenty of schizophrinics are high-functioning enough to check into the doctor, mental care, social workers, etc. etc. They can act independently, hold jobs and benefit society. That's probably one of the worst diseases to have but even then its not a hopeless situation.

wahern 5y ago
> Even your crazed schizophrenic wants a home to sleep in. Actually, no. Some crazed schizophrenics simply are unable to live in a stable environment without being coerced, precisely because their affliction effects their ability to think and behave in a manner conducive to maintaining their own health and safety. And that's just one end of an entire spectrum of distorted thinking. At the opposite end of that spectrum is... nobody, because nobody is perfectly rational. This is why we have a horrendous problem now, because too many people approach the issues by imagining themselves in these situations, imposing their own desires and fears. But that's not empathy; that's about as selfish as you can get. Empathy is about imagining yourself as another person, not imagining oneself simply physically swapping circumstances.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  Have you talked to homeless people? A lot of them just don't have enough money to get a house. Have you ever met a schizophrinic before? Its not like they're off the loony bin / completely off their rocker, its actually pretty similar to QAnon-style conspiracy theorists. They have some delusions and have difficulty accepting which facts are real or not. But that's not enough of a reason to prevent them from holding a stable job or house. ----- Have you studied John Forbes Nash Jr.? A celebrated mathematician, the one who discovered "Nash Equalibrium"? He's literally diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia and never suffered from homelessness. Its not like "bam, I'm mentally unstable, lol I don't want my house anymore". That's the stuff of crappy Hollywood stories, and has no basis in reality. In most cases, any person, be they crazy / delusional / schizo / mentally sick or normal, will want a warm place to sleep and the rain out of their clothes. They'll need various amounts of care. Maybe a few drugs is sufficient to hold off their worst symptoms. Maybe socialization / keeping up with friends is what's needed. Hard to say exactly, I'm not a psychologist. But from what I've seen and experienced, mental illness is not an excuse for homelessness. Not at all. ----- Homeless people, the ones I meet and interact with, are people who don't have enough money for a home. They've been kicked out of their apartment and don't know what to do. Maybe they're crazy, maybe they're schizo as well. But even if they are, that doesn't change the fundamental issue (ie: their lack of money, their inability to afford a home right now).

themacguffinman 5y ago

https://www.bbrfoundation.org/blog/homelessness-and-mental-illness-challenge-our-society https://www.bbrfoundation.org/blog/homelessness-and-mental-i... > Most researchers agree that the connection between homelessness and mental illness is a complicated, two-way relationship. An individual’s mental illness may lead to cognitive and behavioral problems that make it difficult to earn a stable income or to carry out daily activities in ways that encourage stable housing. Several studies have shown, however, that individuals with mental illnesses often find themselves homeless primarily as the result of poverty and a lack of low-income housing. That was a summary article that lists some sources at the bottom. Aside from the research, it makes intuitive sense to me as well. Even high severity mental illness is not exclusive or close to exclusive to homeless populations. For every mental illness you find in a homeless person, you can usually find a non-homeless person who has managed it with social support and/or medication. It doesn't make sense to portray homelessness as a causal outcome of mental illness that won't be affected by social & economic policy.