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You don't get it — I'm not motivated by property values. I'm motivated by 1.) the massive waste of taxpayer dollars that could go elsewhere, and 2.) my compassi

You don't get it — I'm not motivated by property values. I'm motivated by 1.) the massive waste of taxpayer dollars that could go elsewhere, and 2.) my compassion for people who really need help, not just a room. San Francisco spends over $100,000 per homeless individual, per year. It is ridiculous that I kept seeing the same faces doing the same things for years, and of course their population has grown and continues to grow. Throwing money at the problem doesn't work in the United States. The continued advocacy for these programs seems to be rooted in either progressive wishful thinking or simple graft (there's a lot of money changing hands).

nate_meurer 5y ago
Have you read anything about Denver's housing-first program? I haven't taken the time to read up on it, but the popular narrative around here is that it's been successful enough to be worth expanding.
- aerostable_slug 5y ago
  I haven't seen enough data yet, at least not from sources that aren't obviously predisposed to bias one outcome or another. That said, I imagine there would be some significant differences simply due to the weather. Also, the metrics for "success" sometimes seem questionable. Example: percentage of residents still in the same residence a year later. Aren't we trying to help them progress out of the lot they're in and towards returning to a productive member of society? Stagnating in a room just means they're dying slower, not becoming better. What I've seen firsthand is 'street people' moving from a tent or the like into an SRO, but continuing with their addictions, criminal behavior (often to sustain said addictions), etc. I've even seen people whom I know have a room in an SRO on 6th street (SF) produce bodily waste in an alley because they didn't feel like going back inside. I would think a better metric would be the percentage who move from a housing-first program into transitional housing, or rehab, or find employment, or some other indicia we're doing something other than giving them a roof and calling it a day.
FooBarBizBazz 5y ago
I think a lot of people have never actually had to care for a person with serious mental illness, and are naive about what it entails.
gruez 5y ago
>San Francisco spends over $100,000 per homeless individual, per year AFAIK this statistic is misleading because it takes all the dollars spent fighting homelessness, and divides it by the amount of homeless on the streets. That's fine if you're talking about outreach programs or whatever, but if you also include programs that are actively keeping people off the streets (eg. housing vouchers), then you're undercounting the denominator.

nate_meurer 5y ago

Have you read anything about Denver's housing-first program? I haven't taken the time to read up on it, but the popular narrative around here is that it's been successful enough to be worth expanding.

aerostable_slug 5y ago
I haven't seen enough data yet, at least not from sources that aren't obviously predisposed to bias one outcome or another. That said, I imagine there would be some significant differences simply due to the weather. Also, the metrics for "success" sometimes seem questionable. Example: percentage of residents still in the same residence a year later. Aren't we trying to help them progress out of the lot they're in and towards returning to a productive member of society? Stagnating in a room just means they're dying slower, not becoming better. What I've seen firsthand is 'street people' moving from a tent or the like into an SRO, but continuing with their addictions, criminal behavior (often to sustain said addictions), etc. I've even seen people whom I know have a room in an SRO on 6th street (SF) produce bodily waste in an alley because they didn't feel like going back inside. I would think a better metric would be the percentage who move from a housing-first program into transitional housing, or rehab, or find employment, or some other indicia we're doing something other than giving them a roof and calling it a day.

FooBarBizBazz 5y ago

I think a lot of people have never actually had to care for a person with serious mental illness, and are naive about what it entails.

gruez 5y ago

>San Francisco spends over $100,000 per homeless individual, per year AFAIK this statistic is misleading because it takes all the dollars spent fighting homelessness, and divides it by the amount of homeless on the streets. That's fine if you're talking about outreach programs or whatever, but if you also include programs that are actively keeping people off the streets (eg. housing vouchers), then you're undercounting the denominator.