4 ms·

> Kind of sad that he was let go for the one thing he likely had the least ability to control: Other people's feelings > how do you coach someone to change som

> Kind of sad that he was let go for the one thing he likely had the least ability to control: Other people's feelings > how do you coach someone to change someone else's impression of him? Assuming he was standing behind women in the office watching them he's an outright creep. This reads like you're blaming other people for a creep's behavior. Many places are at-will employment and that can be terminated on either side of the relationship as long as it doesn't fall in the realm of discrimination. As far as I'm concerned, the employer and management operated 100% responsibly to ensure a safe and comfortable working environment for everyone.

csdvrx 5y ago
Counter point: I've had people who exerted towards me weird behaviors that freaked me out, and instead of escalating that and make it someone else problem, when I took the time to explain them privately, they told me they were autistic and didn't know how to read people and had no idea it was inappropriate, thanked me for giving them the feedback, and then adjusted their behavior!! OMG imagine that: people adjust to feedback!! Maybe we should take the time to TALK and try to resolve problems, before pointing fingers or firing them? Most people are good and want to be nice. I don't like the "modern" way of calling out people, as it's not a good default heuristic, and not just that: it's ultimately counter-productive, as it hurts people who don't understand what happened, then switch to dangerous ideologies, become more and more polarized and double-down on inappropriate behaviors instead of adapting. And it makes the problem worse, as now they can rationalize their behavior given their new bizarre ideology
- a5aAqU 5y ago
  That's the right approach. I wish it were the top comment. You should turn it into a blog post.
  - csdvrx 5y ago
    I'm not much into blogging, but maybe I'll start blogging in 2022. There're many interesting technical things I'd wish to share, like converting 512 NTFS volune to a 4k, which is very valuable on new 4kn NVMe drives: using 512e has a negative performance impact that's easy to measure with CrystalDisk or other tools. However, for more controversial stuff, like whatever could be used as cannon fodder for the culture wars, I think I'd rather opt out.
    - a5aAqU 5y ago
      I don't think your comment ventures into the culture wars. It's just about good communication skills.
- sangnoir 5y ago
  That was commendable of you to take time to explain to them in 1:1, but my suspicion is that it does not scale. Suppose this wasn't the last time it happened - how much of your time are you willing to put into explaining to person after person after person how their behavior is freaking you out? If it happens in different places, several times a month (or week), it can get pretty old quickly, and that may shorten your patience.
  - csdvrx 5y ago
    You're right that's it's not scalable and that my patience is finite. But, surprisingly enough, people SHARE information, and the person that has learned that I'm creeped might even volunteer to tell the other person in their own words why it's a problem, and how to solve it. Also, an office is not hundreds of people in the same root. So I solved my problem quickly and efficiently using the old-way of "speaking about it" to the concerned party instead of escalating to HR/managers who may be tempted to use their giant banhammer simply because they don't know how to peacefully solve the issue using ... words! Simple problems call for simple solutions.
    - sangnoir 5y ago
      > Also, an office is not hundreds of people in the same root. It's really hard to special-case the office when you're creeped grabbing lunch at Panera, in the street, while shopping groceries, at the movies, in the subway, at the laundromat, while hiking, at the nightclub, while walking the dog... you get the idea. Women endure ridiculous amount of harassment/creeps- the office is the last place they should have to endure more of it and having to resolve it on top of it. I have no qualms having such issues escalated to HR -perhaps they have gaps in their training that have to be addressed to prevent recurrence with another non-neurotypical person in the future. I do not think it's always advisable to engage 1:1 with someone who was being creepy from a distance: what if they are still creepy/erratic/become agitated, (and not understanding) in close quarters?
      - csdvrx 5y ago
        > Women endure ridiculous amount of harassment/creeps- the office is the last place they should have to endure more of it and having to resolve it on top of it. Yes, but escalating comes with the risk of a false positive / getting ostracized. So I acted following my own best interests. > what if they are still creepy/erratic/become agitated, (and not understanding) in close quarters? Our diversity policy doesn't extend to people having severe and obvious mental issues :) As for outside the office, it's a judgement call. I may act differently if harassed by a drunk homeless person.

csdvrx 5y ago

Counter point: I've had people who exerted towards me weird behaviors that freaked me out, and instead of escalating that and make it someone else problem, when I took the time to explain them privately, they told me they were autistic and didn't know how to read people and had no idea it was inappropriate, thanked me for giving them the feedback, and then adjusted their behavior!! OMG imagine that: people adjust to feedback!! Maybe we should take the time to TALK and try to resolve problems, before pointing fingers or firing them? Most people are good and want to be nice. I don't like the "modern" way of calling out people, as it's not a good default heuristic, and not just that: it's ultimately counter-productive, as it hurts people who don't understand what happened, then switch to dangerous ideologies, become more and more polarized and double-down on inappropriate behaviors instead of adapting. And it makes the problem worse, as now they can rationalize their behavior given their new bizarre ideology

a5aAqU 5y ago
That's the right approach. I wish it were the top comment. You should turn it into a blog post.
- csdvrx 5y ago
  I'm not much into blogging, but maybe I'll start blogging in 2022. There're many interesting technical things I'd wish to share, like converting 512 NTFS volune to a 4k, which is very valuable on new 4kn NVMe drives: using 512e has a negative performance impact that's easy to measure with CrystalDisk or other tools. However, for more controversial stuff, like whatever could be used as cannon fodder for the culture wars, I think I'd rather opt out.
  - a5aAqU 5y ago
    I don't think your comment ventures into the culture wars. It's just about good communication skills.
sangnoir 5y ago
That was commendable of you to take time to explain to them in 1:1, but my suspicion is that it does not scale. Suppose this wasn't the last time it happened - how much of your time are you willing to put into explaining to person after person after person how their behavior is freaking you out? If it happens in different places, several times a month (or week), it can get pretty old quickly, and that may shorten your patience.
- csdvrx 5y ago
  You're right that's it's not scalable and that my patience is finite. But, surprisingly enough, people SHARE information, and the person that has learned that I'm creeped might even volunteer to tell the other person in their own words why it's a problem, and how to solve it. Also, an office is not hundreds of people in the same root. So I solved my problem quickly and efficiently using the old-way of "speaking about it" to the concerned party instead of escalating to HR/managers who may be tempted to use their giant banhammer simply because they don't know how to peacefully solve the issue using ... words! Simple problems call for simple solutions.
  - sangnoir 5y ago
    > Also, an office is not hundreds of people in the same root. It's really hard to special-case the office when you're creeped grabbing lunch at Panera, in the street, while shopping groceries, at the movies, in the subway, at the laundromat, while hiking, at the nightclub, while walking the dog... you get the idea. Women endure ridiculous amount of harassment/creeps- the office is the last place they should have to endure more of it and having to resolve it on top of it. I have no qualms having such issues escalated to HR -perhaps they have gaps in their training that have to be addressed to prevent recurrence with another non-neurotypical person in the future. I do not think it's always advisable to engage 1:1 with someone who was being creepy from a distance: what if they are still creepy/erratic/become agitated, (and not understanding) in close quarters?
    - csdvrx 5y ago
      > Women endure ridiculous amount of harassment/creeps- the office is the last place they should have to endure more of it and having to resolve it on top of it. Yes, but escalating comes with the risk of a false positive / getting ostracized. So I acted following my own best interests. > what if they are still creepy/erratic/become agitated, (and not understanding) in close quarters? Our diversity policy doesn't extend to people having severe and obvious mental issues :) As for outside the office, it's a judgement call. I may act differently if harassed by a drunk homeless person.