5 ms·

>Surely this is the end of the pandemic? Yes, welcome to the endemic. Covid is here to stay, it doesn't matter if 100% of the world were vaccinated tommrow, co

>Surely this is the end of the pandemic? Yes, welcome to the endemic. Covid is here to stay, it doesn't matter if 100% of the world were vaccinated tommrow, covid would not go away. It doesn't matter if you get the vaccination or not, in your life time you WILL get covid (just like the flu, no one escapes it, you typically get the flu about every decade or so regardless of shots). We need to just accept this and move back to "old normal".

stefan_ 5y ago
You have a rather crucial misunderstanding. There are lots of endemic viruses; that is part of why we vaccinate new humans against so many of them.
- swader999 5y ago
  Not ones that mutate this efficiently. Flu is the only example and we typically only manage to get high percentages of the vulnerable with it. This is what we want with these types of virus otherwise you risk Mariks scenario. (See the poultry industry issues)
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  Most of those viruses are actually very deadly, and most of those vaccines actually make you not-get-it-at-all. The only comparable virus is the flu, and the vaccine is equally shitty [0] as the covid vaccines are. Death rates for young and (currently healthy) people are very very low (lower than traffic deaths in my country, much lower than suicides), and they are the most affected by the lockdowns. By reopening and focusing on risk groups we could finally start living normally again. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_vaccine#Effectiveness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_vaccine#Effectivenes...
  - babypuncher 5y ago
    800,000 dead americans in less than two years sounds pretty deadly to me
    - abduhl 5y ago
      Yes, but that’s because you’ve only started listening to people talk about the number of dead folks recently. 800k isn't nothing but it’s not exactly earth shattering.
zucked 5y ago
I, too, think that Omicron is the beginning of the transition back to "normal" with Covid becoming endemic. Everyone is going to be exposed to Omicron if they haven't already. I expect that for the next year or two, boosters will be recommended as a yearly "flu shot" to give you a decent chance of being minimally affected if exposed. Omicron will continue to be the dominate strain, finding hosts in both the vaccinated and unvaccinated. The difference will be that we will have a myriad tools at our disposal to prevent serious illness and treat it when it does happen.
gromitss 5y ago
swader999 5y ago
So can we just do away with the show your passports nonsense then? Think of the tax that adds up every establishment.
- smileysteve 5y ago
  Yes, your local jurisdiction can. Many of us have never had such a requirement.
  - swader999 5y ago
    Well if I can't change my jurisdiction, I just may have to change my jurisdiction.
elif 5y ago
I think that may be a completely rational perspective from within the United States... however, from the perspective of countries with effective containment strategies, that sounds prematurely defeatist, and also ignores the vast good that comes from containing spread for mutagenic purposes.
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  It will be very interesting to see how containment countries adapt to the future, where global eradication simply isn't possible. Perhaps there will be a sterilizing vaccine that makes it worth it in the end. My heart goes out to those impacted by containment strategies. I was talking with someone from NZ or AU (I forget), who hasn't been able to go home an see his wife in two Christmases.
- henrikschroder 5y ago
  What effective containment strategies? Pretty much every country's strategies have completely collapsed due to Omicron. Australia currently has a wildly exponential growth of cases and twice the number of daily cases/capita compared to Sweden, to take two countries at each end of the "containment" spectrum. And that's despite Australia being in the middle of summer, despite Australia being isolated in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, and despite Australia having more restrictions than Sweden right now. It's all hubris. We have way less control over the spread than we like to think.
  - zionic 5y ago
    Not just “more than Sweden”. Australia has failed while going full 1984. This entire thing is a huge inditement of police nanny states.
  - paganel 5y ago
    > What effective containment strategies? I think NZ and especially China are the only ones left. I think NZ has relaxed its restrictions about 2-3 months ago and to be honest I'm a little surprised they haven't yet followed Australia's path with the exponential number of Omicron cases, but imo the very big question remains China, I have no idea how they plan to handle this going forward.
babypuncher 5y ago
Old normal will not return until our hospitals are also back to normal
- tjr225 5y ago
  Our daughter had a fever for four days over the holidays. We literally could not even get into see a pediatrician or an urgent care. There was nothing available. If a minor cold is enough to cripple our healthcare system, you have to wonder if maybe there is some other reason our hospitals aren't able(or willing) to go back to normal. I spend thousands of dollars on health INSURANCE every year. If I go to the ER it still costs me over $2k. The last time I went to the ER, I didn't even see a doctor ONCE.
  - guimplen 5y ago
    Don't be so selfish. Insurance lawyer or manager cannot make his lambo buy itself.
  - babypuncher 5y ago
    It's crippling our healthcare system because it's not a minor cold. People are filling our ICUs rooms needing ventilators and intravenous fluids just to not die. The common cold does not do that. They could not see your daughter about a fever because all hands were too busy keeping people from the literal brink of death. This is why anti-vaxxers and covid-deniers are such a big problem. They think that even if they are wrong, it only affects them, but it doesn't. If I get in a car accident tomorrow, there is a very real possibility that my own treatment will be delayed because the nearest hospital is overwhelmed with dying COVID patients.
    - tjr225 5y ago
      We have had over two years to prepare for this. I don’t buy it for one second. The last time I went to the ER was prior to the pandemic… and it still cost over two thousand dollars after insurance. Insurance that I spent probably over 10k a year for. Maybe Covid isn’t the issue. Maybe our infrastructure is. If you think they aren’t laughing their arses to the bank over this then I dunno bud. You really think that we can’t afford the equipment and staff to handle this? How much do you spend on health insurance every year? Your brother? Sister? Literally everyone around you? Why aren’t we pointing fingers at the hundreds of wasteful medical contractors hemorrhaging taxpayer dollars in this time of crisis? How much money do you think director level types and administrator level types deserve in times of catastrophe such as these, especially if my daughter can’t even see a doctor when she is sick? Omicron is not the problem. We should be able to handle this.

stefan_ 5y ago

You have a rather crucial misunderstanding. There are lots of endemic viruses; that is part of why we vaccinate new humans against so many of them.

swader999 5y ago
Not ones that mutate this efficiently. Flu is the only example and we typically only manage to get high percentages of the vulnerable with it. This is what we want with these types of virus otherwise you risk Mariks scenario. (See the poultry industry issues)
ajsnigrutin 5y ago
Most of those viruses are actually very deadly, and most of those vaccines actually make you not-get-it-at-all. The only comparable virus is the flu, and the vaccine is equally shitty [0] as the covid vaccines are. Death rates for young and (currently healthy) people are very very low (lower than traffic deaths in my country, much lower than suicides), and they are the most affected by the lockdowns. By reopening and focusing on risk groups we could finally start living normally again. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_vaccine#Effectiveness https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza_vaccine#Effectivenes...
- babypuncher 5y ago
  800,000 dead americans in less than two years sounds pretty deadly to me
  - abduhl 5y ago
    Yes, but that’s because you’ve only started listening to people talk about the number of dead folks recently. 800k isn't nothing but it’s not exactly earth shattering.

zucked 5y ago

I, too, think that Omicron is the beginning of the transition back to "normal" with Covid becoming endemic. Everyone is going to be exposed to Omicron if they haven't already. I expect that for the next year or two, boosters will be recommended as a yearly "flu shot" to give you a decent chance of being minimally affected if exposed. Omicron will continue to be the dominate strain, finding hosts in both the vaccinated and unvaccinated. The difference will be that we will have a myriad tools at our disposal to prevent serious illness and treat it when it does happen.

gromitss 5y ago

swader999 5y ago

So can we just do away with the show your passports nonsense then? Think of the tax that adds up every establishment.

smileysteve 5y ago
Yes, your local jurisdiction can. Many of us have never had such a requirement.
- swader999 5y ago
  Well if I can't change my jurisdiction, I just may have to change my jurisdiction.

elif 5y ago

I think that may be a completely rational perspective from within the United States... however, from the perspective of countries with effective containment strategies, that sounds prematurely defeatist, and also ignores the vast good that comes from containing spread for mutagenic purposes.

s1artibartfast 5y ago
It will be very interesting to see how containment countries adapt to the future, where global eradication simply isn't possible. Perhaps there will be a sterilizing vaccine that makes it worth it in the end. My heart goes out to those impacted by containment strategies. I was talking with someone from NZ or AU (I forget), who hasn't been able to go home an see his wife in two Christmases.
henrikschroder 5y ago
What effective containment strategies? Pretty much every country's strategies have completely collapsed due to Omicron. Australia currently has a wildly exponential growth of cases and twice the number of daily cases/capita compared to Sweden, to take two countries at each end of the "containment" spectrum. And that's despite Australia being in the middle of summer, despite Australia being isolated in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, and despite Australia having more restrictions than Sweden right now. It's all hubris. We have way less control over the spread than we like to think.
- zionic 5y ago
  Not just “more than Sweden”. Australia has failed while going full 1984. This entire thing is a huge inditement of police nanny states.
- paganel 5y ago
  > What effective containment strategies? I think NZ and especially China are the only ones left. I think NZ has relaxed its restrictions about 2-3 months ago and to be honest I'm a little surprised they haven't yet followed Australia's path with the exponential number of Omicron cases, but imo the very big question remains China, I have no idea how they plan to handle this going forward.

babypuncher 5y ago

Old normal will not return until our hospitals are also back to normal

tjr225 5y ago
Our daughter had a fever for four days over the holidays. We literally could not even get into see a pediatrician or an urgent care. There was nothing available. If a minor cold is enough to cripple our healthcare system, you have to wonder if maybe there is some other reason our hospitals aren't able(or willing) to go back to normal. I spend thousands of dollars on health INSURANCE every year. If I go to the ER it still costs me over $2k. The last time I went to the ER, I didn't even see a doctor ONCE.
- guimplen 5y ago
  Don't be so selfish. Insurance lawyer or manager cannot make his lambo buy itself.
- babypuncher 5y ago
  It's crippling our healthcare system because it's not a minor cold. People are filling our ICUs rooms needing ventilators and intravenous fluids just to not die. The common cold does not do that. They could not see your daughter about a fever because all hands were too busy keeping people from the literal brink of death. This is why anti-vaxxers and covid-deniers are such a big problem. They think that even if they are wrong, it only affects them, but it doesn't. If I get in a car accident tomorrow, there is a very real possibility that my own treatment will be delayed because the nearest hospital is overwhelmed with dying COVID patients.
  - tjr225 5y ago
    We have had over two years to prepare for this. I don’t buy it for one second. The last time I went to the ER was prior to the pandemic… and it still cost over two thousand dollars after insurance. Insurance that I spent probably over 10k a year for. Maybe Covid isn’t the issue. Maybe our infrastructure is. If you think they aren’t laughing their arses to the bank over this then I dunno bud. You really think that we can’t afford the equipment and staff to handle this? How much do you spend on health insurance every year? Your brother? Sister? Literally everyone around you? Why aren’t we pointing fingers at the hundreds of wasteful medical contractors hemorrhaging taxpayer dollars in this time of crisis? How much money do you think director level types and administrator level types deserve in times of catastrophe such as these, especially if my daughter can’t even see a doctor when she is sick? Omicron is not the problem. We should be able to handle this.