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> They will have rebelled against long hours; the chances are that in 2022 few people will work more than seven hours a day, if as much. honestly, with remote

> They will have rebelled against long hours; the chances are that in 2022 few people will work more than seven hours a day, if as much. honestly, with remote work, seven hours a day seems about right. A lot of that isn't even lost productivity, it's cutting back on the general time overhead of working in an office. I don't think that Americans are so prosperous that we've become less enterprising due to class immobility. but we do seem to be getting more efficient with our time

idiotsecant 5y ago
>honestly, with remote work, seven hours a day seems about right. This is, with the most possible respect, a position of great privilege. Most people in the US are not remote workers that get to work 7 hours a day. They are expected to be physically present doing things like retail service work, manufacturing, healthcare, construction, etc. The average HN user is in a very specific demographic that has benefited enormously from recent economic trends, a benefit that is not distributed evenly. Many (most?) people are working more then they ever did for an increasingly smaller piece of the pie.
- sologoub 5y ago
  > Most people in the US are not remote workers that get to work 7 hours a day. They are expected to be physically present doing things like retail service work, manufacturing, healthcare, construction, etc. This is not entirely accurate — as much as 69% of all full-time employees worked remotely during the pandemic: https://news.gallup.com/poll/355907/remote-work-persisting-trending-permanent.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/355907/remote-work-persisting-t... While we certainly do have professions that require in-person presence, it’s not every role in those professions and certainly many more people can enjoy the benefits of remote work. Those who cannot should be rewarded for that and added enjoy benefits/guarantees to compensate.
  - rbanffy 5y ago
    > Those who cannot should be rewarded for that and added enjoy benefits/guarantees to compensate. This is more or less the opposite of what happens to these professionals - they are often those who are paid the least and work the longest hours under hourly contracts on multiple jobs (because, if they worked more in a single job, the company would have to give those benefits).
    - sologoub 5y ago
      Yeah it’s what happens, but I’m of strong opinion that this part needs to change. Unfortunately, some of the hardest jobs don’t come with enough dignity, let a long pay.
      - rbanffy 5y ago
        It's shameful that in the richest country in the world there are people being forced to work 12 or more hours a day just to survive. And going to work with COVID symptoms because they can't live without payment.
        sologoub 5y ago
        > And going to work with COVID symptoms because they can't live without payment. That’s a very grotesque illustration of perverse incentives. Ask anyone, I doubt they’ll tell you that it’s worth having a sick person show up to work over providing sick leave/benefits and yet, here we are.
        rbanffy 5y ago
        The point is that they aren't forced to provide sick leave unless the person works more than a certain amount of hours. If the person is desperate enough (and a LOT of people are), the "smart" choice is to never get a diagnosis and continue working.
- jacobr1 5y ago
  While you see plenty of press decrying the shrinking middle class ... it still is the majority of the US! Even things like living in a detached single family home, still is something that 70% of Americans do, even if homeownership is down and rents are up. All economic trends happen at the margin, 2% here, 5% there. Big shifts, even over decades, are rarer.

idiotsecant 5y ago

>honestly, with remote work, seven hours a day seems about right. This is, with the most possible respect, a position of great privilege. Most people in the US are not remote workers that get to work 7 hours a day. They are expected to be physically present doing things like retail service work, manufacturing, healthcare, construction, etc. The average HN user is in a very specific demographic that has benefited enormously from recent economic trends, a benefit that is not distributed evenly. Many (most?) people are working more then they ever did for an increasingly smaller piece of the pie.

sologoub 5y ago
> Most people in the US are not remote workers that get to work 7 hours a day. They are expected to be physically present doing things like retail service work, manufacturing, healthcare, construction, etc. This is not entirely accurate — as much as 69% of all full-time employees worked remotely during the pandemic: https://news.gallup.com/poll/355907/remote-work-persisting-trending-permanent.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/355907/remote-work-persisting-t... While we certainly do have professions that require in-person presence, it’s not every role in those professions and certainly many more people can enjoy the benefits of remote work. Those who cannot should be rewarded for that and added enjoy benefits/guarantees to compensate.
- rbanffy 5y ago
  > Those who cannot should be rewarded for that and added enjoy benefits/guarantees to compensate. This is more or less the opposite of what happens to these professionals - they are often those who are paid the least and work the longest hours under hourly contracts on multiple jobs (because, if they worked more in a single job, the company would have to give those benefits).
  - sologoub 5y ago
    Yeah it’s what happens, but I’m of strong opinion that this part needs to change. Unfortunately, some of the hardest jobs don’t come with enough dignity, let a long pay.
    - rbanffy 5y ago
      It's shameful that in the richest country in the world there are people being forced to work 12 or more hours a day just to survive. And going to work with COVID symptoms because they can't live without payment.
      - sologoub 5y ago
        > And going to work with COVID symptoms because they can't live without payment. That’s a very grotesque illustration of perverse incentives. Ask anyone, I doubt they’ll tell you that it’s worth having a sick person show up to work over providing sick leave/benefits and yet, here we are.
        rbanffy 5y ago
        The point is that they aren't forced to provide sick leave unless the person works more than a certain amount of hours. If the person is desperate enough (and a LOT of people are), the "smart" choice is to never get a diagnosis and continue working.
jacobr1 5y ago
While you see plenty of press decrying the shrinking middle class ... it still is the majority of the US! Even things like living in a detached single family home, still is something that 70% of Americans do, even if homeownership is down and rents are up. All economic trends happen at the margin, 2% here, 5% there. Big shifts, even over decades, are rarer.