3 ms·

Yeah like Bitcoin. :-)

arcticbull 5y ago
You can substantially only buy drugs directly for Bitcoin - still, to this day. Otherwise you have to exchange it for dollars, the things humans use for payments. This can be done via transparent gateway like Bitpay, but directly exchanging Bitcoin for legal goods and services is still not something you can do. Not least because 4tx/sec wouldn't even service a mid-sized Costco.
- randomhodler84 5y ago
  My goodness Arctic, I don’t think those 2015 era talking points apply anymore. DNMs take monero. Bitcoin, you can buy many many things. And you mention the 4tx/sec thing, you know that payment channels were invented many years ago and are used by WHOLE COUNTRIES today right? We can argue over and over again. The world is changing, moving. We have lost faith in the system. We made our own system.
- aspenmayer 5y ago
  You can buy goods from Amazon with crypto without even having an Amazon account.[0] You are coming off as a motivated detractor, but I don’t find your points timely. They are like 10 years out of date. Crypto works for many real world use cases. You may not know this or agree, but it’s the lived reality of others in this thread. [0] https://purse.io https://purse.io
arcticbull 5y ago
> And you mention the 4tx/sec thing, you know that payment channels were invented many years ago and are used by WHOLE COUNTRIES today right? Really? Name a single one lol. Chivo is a MySQL store. And a garbage one at that. They only use Lightning to transfer value internationally between their own two accounts that they could do instead with an addition and a paired subtraction. Nobody uses Lightning. Nobody's ever used Lightning. Not to mention all the liquidity is provided by 3 centralized entities. [1] I don't think Monero actually offers the level of security that most folks think it does, and Hydra still uses BTC no? I did forget to mention ransomware payments, so thank you. [1] https://bitcoinvisuals.com/lightning https://bitcoinvisuals.com/lightning
- randomhodler84 5y ago
  Again, you are misinformed. Chivo is one wallet. Agree it’s not great but El Salvador vendors hav implemented Point of Sale Lightning Network. It is an open system and you can use one of many mobile LN wallets. Chivo is probably the weakest. You will find that McDonalds, Starbucks, the local fruit vendor on the street can process an open LN tx. No sweat. “Nobody uses it”. Yeah ok. Those graphs indicate non zero channel balances and nodes. Monero still has the 650k bounty on tx de anonymization. If you have a way, feel free to claim it. RW. Sigh.
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Nothing you've said really counters anything I've said lol. > “Nobody uses it”. Yeah ok. Those graphs indicate non zero channel balances and nodes. I didn't see a country come on line in the charts. I see twice as many people using it as 3 years ago and virtually zero increase in usage post-El Salvador. At the end of the day it's boat anchored to a worthless L1 which would require 75 years and ~1/3 of a trillion dollars to open a channel for everyone on earth.
    - randomhodler84 5y ago
      You see channels, not users. You see locked funds, not txs. I don’t think you know how this works at all. I think you are being willfully ignorant about this. You said no country uses it: and I said yes they do. You said chivo sucks, I said yeah, but you can use any LN wallet. I don’t know what more I can say. You are living in the past man, making excuses for the Fed and the State. Things have moved on, and I feel like you will be screaming as more nations adopt this. El Salvador is mining BTC from geothermal power from Volcanos.
- aspenmayer 5y ago
  Bisq? https://bisq.network https://bisq.network

You can substantially only buy drugs directly for Bitcoin - still, to this day. Otherwise you have to exchange it for dollars, the things humans use for payments. This can be done via transparent gateway like Bitpay, but directly exchanging Bitcoin for legal goods and services is still not something you can do. Not least because 4tx/sec wouldn't even service a mid-sized Costco.

randomhodler84 5y ago
My goodness Arctic, I don’t think those 2015 era talking points apply anymore. DNMs take monero. Bitcoin, you can buy many many things. And you mention the 4tx/sec thing, you know that payment channels were invented many years ago and are used by WHOLE COUNTRIES today right? We can argue over and over again. The world is changing, moving. We have lost faith in the system. We made our own system.
aspenmayer 5y ago
You can buy goods from Amazon with crypto without even having an Amazon account.[0] You are coming off as a motivated detractor, but I don’t find your points timely. They are like 10 years out of date. Crypto works for many real world use cases. You may not know this or agree, but it’s the lived reality of others in this thread. [0] https://purse.io https://purse.io

arcticbull 5y ago

> And you mention the 4tx/sec thing, you know that payment channels were invented many years ago and are used by WHOLE COUNTRIES today right? Really? Name a single one lol. Chivo is a MySQL store. And a garbage one at that. They only use Lightning to transfer value internationally between their own two accounts that they could do instead with an addition and a paired subtraction. Nobody uses Lightning. Nobody's ever used Lightning. Not to mention all the liquidity is provided by 3 centralized entities. [1] I don't think Monero actually offers the level of security that most folks think it does, and Hydra still uses BTC no? I did forget to mention ransomware payments, so thank you. [1] https://bitcoinvisuals.com/lightning https://bitcoinvisuals.com/lightning

randomhodler84 5y ago
Again, you are misinformed. Chivo is one wallet. Agree it’s not great but El Salvador vendors hav implemented Point of Sale Lightning Network. It is an open system and you can use one of many mobile LN wallets. Chivo is probably the weakest. You will find that McDonalds, Starbucks, the local fruit vendor on the street can process an open LN tx. No sweat. “Nobody uses it”. Yeah ok. Those graphs indicate non zero channel balances and nodes. Monero still has the 650k bounty on tx de anonymization. If you have a way, feel free to claim it. RW. Sigh.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Nothing you've said really counters anything I've said lol. > “Nobody uses it”. Yeah ok. Those graphs indicate non zero channel balances and nodes. I didn't see a country come on line in the charts. I see twice as many people using it as 3 years ago and virtually zero increase in usage post-El Salvador. At the end of the day it's boat anchored to a worthless L1 which would require 75 years and ~1/3 of a trillion dollars to open a channel for everyone on earth.
  - randomhodler84 5y ago
    You see channels, not users. You see locked funds, not txs. I don’t think you know how this works at all. I think you are being willfully ignorant about this. You said no country uses it: and I said yes they do. You said chivo sucks, I said yeah, but you can use any LN wallet. I don’t know what more I can say. You are living in the past man, making excuses for the Fed and the State. Things have moved on, and I feel like you will be screaming as more nations adopt this. El Salvador is mining BTC from geothermal power from Volcanos.
aspenmayer 5y ago
Bisq? https://bisq.network https://bisq.network