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Countries like Kazakhstan, serve russia as a buffer state from the Nato influence. If near countries start to align with the west, Russia will start to feel per

Countries like Kazakhstan, serve russia as a buffer state from the Nato influence. If near countries start to align with the west, Russia will start to feel personally attacked.

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
This is such a cold war mindset that I have trouble believing that it is actually still the case. It seems overly simplistic.
- anticodon 5y ago
  It is not. If it wouldn't be true, why then US incessantly unleashes "revolutions" in all countries around Russia? Why US invests millions of dollars into rusophobic propaganda in all countries bordering Russia? Why US attempts to build military bases in all the countries that border Russia? If it's all just a "cold war mindset".
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - Jon_Lowtek 5y ago
    That foreign nations are inciting revolutions is Siloviki rhetoric, used by authoritarian regimes to justify surveillance and arrests of their opposition or at least undermine their support by the public. And this is exactly what we are seeing in Kazakhstan: people riot over increasing cost of living and the president blames it on foreign agitators. Because that is easier and more convenient than actually engaging with the issue.
    - helge9210 5y ago
      > That foreign nations are inciting revolutions is Siloviki rhetoric Not always. See for example "US Army Field Manual FM 31-20-3, Foreign Internal Defense Tactics Techniques and Procedures for Special Forces". This one is outdated and was based on US operations in Central/South America. I'm sure Russians have something similar.
  - caskstrength 5y ago
    > It is not. If it wouldn't be true, why then US incessantly unleashes "revolutions" in all countries around Russia? Why US invests millions of dollars into rusophobic propaganda in all countries bordering Russia? Why US attempts to build military bases in all the countries that border Russia? Complete waste of resources from US side! Russia is very successful at making people in ex-USSR countries hate it as-is, making western propaganda completely redundant! But I know a lot of people who actively participated in Maidan revolution and are still waiting for their dirty CIA $$$. Hopefully Obama will pay his debts some day...
    - helge9210 5y ago
      > who actively participated in Maidan revolution and are still waiting for their dirty CIA $$$ I participated in both (2004 and 2014). Where do I register for the "dirty CIA $$$"? I somehow missed it during the original briefing.
- sofixa 5y ago
  That's precisely what Putin is doing now, threatening Ukraine and insisting NATO commit to not admitting Sweden, Finland and Ukraine in.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
    I understand. Russia is no doubt pressuring Ukraine but I don't know if that's because they they want a buffer or they just don't want a stronger NATO.
    - sofixa 5y ago
      I don't think Ukraine, Sweden, Finland would significantly strengthen NATO. If anything, Ukraine is a liability (huge border with Russia and practically in war with them, territorial disputes about Crimea, etc.). The way I understand it, Putin doesn't want any more NATO members on Russia's borders, aka a buffer between Russia and NATO.
zenkat 5y ago
Which is exactly what is happening in Ukraine now. Their attempts to align with NATO have Putin freaking out, with much saber-rattling & troop movement.
- radmuzom 5y ago
  - philistine 5y ago
    This has been a problem for literally decades, and has not stopped collaboration and discussions in the past. The West is disingenuous with NATO expansion, but the USSR and Russia learned to deal with it. Now Putin is using it as his great retort as to why he must invade Ukraine, because he cannot trust the West to keep Ukraine in Russia's vice grip. Explain to me how Putin wants a deal with the West to stop NATO expansion, when all previous promises have been broken. What's different this time?
  - eternalban 5y ago
    That promise is hearsay. Russia, however, did /sign/ an agreement with NATO in 90s and that agreement declares European countries can take "any measure for security" that they deem fit, including joining NATO. Look up "NATO-Russia Founding ACT".
  - brnt 5y ago
    It is not up to NATO or Russia to decide what the former eastern block and former soviet states accede to. If they want to join NATO (and they do, for very obvious reasons), they can. Only in the old Cold War mindset is everything centrally determined by the head of state of some power block. Such a promise, if it existed, which it hasn't, wouldn't be valid anyway. My friend and I can't decide the bookclub is off limits to you. That's between you and the book club.
  - caskstrength 5y ago
    > https://original.antiwar.com/Ted_Snider/2022/01/05/six-things-the-media-wont-tell-you-about-ukraine/ https://original.antiwar.com/Ted_Snider/2022/01/05/six-thing... Okay, let's be open minded for a second and look inside. >> The catalyst for the crisis today in Ukraine was the 2014 coup. That coup was set up and supported by the US. Yes, yes, CIA agents orchestrating the coup. A lot of my friends are still waiting for Obama to pay them for their services... Next 2 paragraph present "proofs": some "intercepted" call discussing future Ukrainian government between Nuland and Pyatt and statement that "Nuland then pressured security forces to stop guarding government buildings and allow the coup protesters in" without further explanation. Mrs. Nuland seems to be a real-life Wonder Woman by single-handedly ordering Ukrainian police and internal forces to just stand down. Can she use some of her superpowers to also order dismissal of Russian troops build up? >> It was a defensive reaction to the oppression of Russian-speaking people on its borders. Oppression? As a Russian-speaking person in Ukraine I don't feel oppressed now and didn't feel oppressed back then. That statement is a Russian propaganda trope. >> Contrary to the portrayal in the media of a people desperate to escape Russian and to run into the arms of NATO, Volodymyr Ishchenko, research associate at the Institute of East European Studies, Freie Universität Berlin, reports that "Ukrainians are far from unified in support of NATO membership." Oh, self-described marxist that "supports neither side of conflict" is a great neutral source of information /s In reality here is actual sociological data https://razumkov.org.ua/uploads/article/2021-nato-ukr.pdf https://razumkov.org.ua/uploads/article/2021-nato-ukr.pdf (to save you the click: 53,6% support NATO membership, 31,0% opposes and 15,2% are still undecided). Besides that the linked article is full of manipulations and outright bullshit. Please don't post your propaganda here. Thanks!
janeroe 5y ago
-- "buffer state" bullshit brought to you since 1939 -- Do they still need Finland as a "buffer state" [1]? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War
- anticodon 5y ago
  Winter war was successful in a sense that it moved Soviet-Finnish border away from Leningrad. A few months later when Germany attacked USSR and Finland joined it, that extra space saved Leningrad (now St. Petersburg) from total destruction.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    > A few months later when Germany attacked USSR and Finland joined it, that extra space saved Leningrad (now St. Petersburg) from total destruction. Yes and no. Had the Winter war not happened, Finland wouldn't have joined the German attack.
khuey 5y ago
Yes Kazakhstan is critical to buffer Russia from NATO influence in checks notes the People's Republic of China.
epolanski 5y ago
Buffer from what? Kazakhstan doesnt border Nato countries.
- major505 5y ago
  They do not care if Kazakhstan enter or not NATO. Is enougth if this countries are not stable so they became a Russia problem. I`m not saying this crisis have CIA handprints, but this skirmishs force Russia to put money, manpower and resources to apease it`s allies.

Countries like Kazakhstan, serve russia as a buffer state from the Nato influence. If near countries start to align with the west, Russia will start to feel personally attacked.

2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago

This is such a cold war mindset that I have trouble believing that it is actually still the case. It seems overly simplistic.

anticodon 5y ago
It is not. If it wouldn't be true, why then US incessantly unleashes "revolutions" in all countries around Russia? Why US invests millions of dollars into rusophobic propaganda in all countries bordering Russia? Why US attempts to build military bases in all the countries that border Russia? If it's all just a "cold war mindset".
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Jon_Lowtek 5y ago
  That foreign nations are inciting revolutions is Siloviki rhetoric, used by authoritarian regimes to justify surveillance and arrests of their opposition or at least undermine their support by the public. And this is exactly what we are seeing in Kazakhstan: people riot over increasing cost of living and the president blames it on foreign agitators. Because that is easier and more convenient than actually engaging with the issue.
  - helge9210 5y ago
    > That foreign nations are inciting revolutions is Siloviki rhetoric Not always. See for example "US Army Field Manual FM 31-20-3, Foreign Internal Defense Tactics Techniques and Procedures for Special Forces". This one is outdated and was based on US operations in Central/South America. I'm sure Russians have something similar.
- caskstrength 5y ago
  > It is not. If it wouldn't be true, why then US incessantly unleashes "revolutions" in all countries around Russia? Why US invests millions of dollars into rusophobic propaganda in all countries bordering Russia? Why US attempts to build military bases in all the countries that border Russia? Complete waste of resources from US side! Russia is very successful at making people in ex-USSR countries hate it as-is, making western propaganda completely redundant! But I know a lot of people who actively participated in Maidan revolution and are still waiting for their dirty CIA $$$. Hopefully Obama will pay his debts some day...
  - helge9210 5y ago
    > who actively participated in Maidan revolution and are still waiting for their dirty CIA $$$ I participated in both (2004 and 2014). Where do I register for the "dirty CIA $$$"? I somehow missed it during the original briefing.
sofixa 5y ago
That's precisely what Putin is doing now, threatening Ukraine and insisting NATO commit to not admitting Sweden, Finland and Ukraine in.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y ago
  I understand. Russia is no doubt pressuring Ukraine but I don't know if that's because they they want a buffer or they just don't want a stronger NATO.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    I don't think Ukraine, Sweden, Finland would significantly strengthen NATO. If anything, Ukraine is a liability (huge border with Russia and practically in war with them, territorial disputes about Crimea, etc.). The way I understand it, Putin doesn't want any more NATO members on Russia's borders, aka a buffer between Russia and NATO.

zenkat 5y ago

Which is exactly what is happening in Ukraine now. Their attempts to align with NATO have Putin freaking out, with much saber-rattling & troop movement.

radmuzom 5y ago
- philistine 5y ago
  This has been a problem for literally decades, and has not stopped collaboration and discussions in the past. The West is disingenuous with NATO expansion, but the USSR and Russia learned to deal with it. Now Putin is using it as his great retort as to why he must invade Ukraine, because he cannot trust the West to keep Ukraine in Russia's vice grip. Explain to me how Putin wants a deal with the West to stop NATO expansion, when all previous promises have been broken. What's different this time?
- eternalban 5y ago
  That promise is hearsay. Russia, however, did /sign/ an agreement with NATO in 90s and that agreement declares European countries can take "any measure for security" that they deem fit, including joining NATO. Look up "NATO-Russia Founding ACT".
- brnt 5y ago
  It is not up to NATO or Russia to decide what the former eastern block and former soviet states accede to. If they want to join NATO (and they do, for very obvious reasons), they can. Only in the old Cold War mindset is everything centrally determined by the head of state of some power block. Such a promise, if it existed, which it hasn't, wouldn't be valid anyway. My friend and I can't decide the bookclub is off limits to you. That's between you and the book club.
- caskstrength 5y ago
  > https://original.antiwar.com/Ted_Snider/2022/01/05/six-things-the-media-wont-tell-you-about-ukraine/ https://original.antiwar.com/Ted_Snider/2022/01/05/six-thing... Okay, let's be open minded for a second and look inside. >> The catalyst for the crisis today in Ukraine was the 2014 coup. That coup was set up and supported by the US. Yes, yes, CIA agents orchestrating the coup. A lot of my friends are still waiting for Obama to pay them for their services... Next 2 paragraph present "proofs": some "intercepted" call discussing future Ukrainian government between Nuland and Pyatt and statement that "Nuland then pressured security forces to stop guarding government buildings and allow the coup protesters in" without further explanation. Mrs. Nuland seems to be a real-life Wonder Woman by single-handedly ordering Ukrainian police and internal forces to just stand down. Can she use some of her superpowers to also order dismissal of Russian troops build up? >> It was a defensive reaction to the oppression of Russian-speaking people on its borders. Oppression? As a Russian-speaking person in Ukraine I don't feel oppressed now and didn't feel oppressed back then. That statement is a Russian propaganda trope. >> Contrary to the portrayal in the media of a people desperate to escape Russian and to run into the arms of NATO, Volodymyr Ishchenko, research associate at the Institute of East European Studies, Freie Universität Berlin, reports that "Ukrainians are far from unified in support of NATO membership." Oh, self-described marxist that "supports neither side of conflict" is a great neutral source of information /s In reality here is actual sociological data https://razumkov.org.ua/uploads/article/2021-nato-ukr.pdf https://razumkov.org.ua/uploads/article/2021-nato-ukr.pdf (to save you the click: 53,6% support NATO membership, 31,0% opposes and 15,2% are still undecided). Besides that the linked article is full of manipulations and outright bullshit. Please don't post your propaganda here. Thanks!

janeroe 5y ago

-- "buffer state" bullshit brought to you since 1939 -- Do they still need Finland as a "buffer state" [1]? [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War

anticodon 5y ago
Winter war was successful in a sense that it moved Soviet-Finnish border away from Leningrad. A few months later when Germany attacked USSR and Finland joined it, that extra space saved Leningrad (now St. Petersburg) from total destruction.
- sofixa 5y ago
  > A few months later when Germany attacked USSR and Finland joined it, that extra space saved Leningrad (now St. Petersburg) from total destruction. Yes and no. Had the Winter war not happened, Finland wouldn't have joined the German attack.

khuey 5y ago

Yes Kazakhstan is critical to buffer Russia from NATO influence in checks notes the People's Republic of China.

epolanski 5y ago

Buffer from what? Kazakhstan doesnt border Nato countries.

major505 5y ago
They do not care if Kazakhstan enter or not NATO. Is enougth if this countries are not stable so they became a Russia problem. I`m not saying this crisis have CIA handprints, but this skirmishs force Russia to put money, manpower and resources to apease it`s allies.