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Just because you don’t have the imagination to see why peer to peer, censorship resistant, non-state based electronic money might be harmful, doesn’t mean we al

Just because you don’t have the imagination to see why peer to peer, censorship resistant, non-state based electronic money might be harmful, doesn’t mean we all feel that way. Bitcoin is an attack on the core foundations of our society and is trying to actively undermine democracy. Thankfully it's pretty ineffective so far.

jessaustin 5y ago
...trying to actively undermine democracy. What "democracy" is this? Is that the word you're using for a "choice" between Biden and Trump? Good grief.
- malermeister 5y ago
  Don't be so US-centric. Just cause one country is failing doesn't mean that all are.
  - jessaustin 5y ago
    What direction are your obesity rates pointing? We are your future.
gruez 5y ago
>Bitcoin is an attack on the core foundations of our society and is trying to actively undermine democracy Without an attached justification I can't tell whether this is serious or not.
- malermeister 5y ago
  The justification is in the parent post. By removing control of money from the democratically elected state, you are creating a corporatist dystopia where only money itself is the highest power and the will of the people no longer has a way of being enforced. I'm a big beginner believer in Kreiskyan deficit spending for example. Good luck trying to do that once you can no longer print your own money.
  - randomhodler84 5y ago
    In most of the west, capital already has the highest power. Unfortunate, but folks seem ok with it. I’m a big believer in sound money and sound fiscal policy. Deficit spending is stealing from the future. Bitcoin is sound money, hard money. You can’t steal from your children to pay your bills today.
    - malermeister 5y ago
      I strongly disagree with your views on "sound money" and fiscal policy. If you look at what Bruno Kreisky did, you'll see that he didn't "steal from" the future, he invested for it. He basically built the modern Austria I know and love. I also think the whole "stealing from the future" talking point is BS - to paraphrase Keynes, in the future we'll all be dead :-). But it's okay for us to disagree here. In a democracy, we can just vote for somebody that represents our views. If either of us can convince the majority to see things our way, we'll get our way. Now if we had an inflexible monetary system like the one you're proposing, even if the vast majority voted to do things my way, we couldn't anymore, because we robbed the democratically elected state of its power. This is what I mean when I say Bitcoin is antidemocratic. It entrenches your ideology on a technological level and removes all democratic control.
      - randomhodler84 5y ago
        And that’s a Good thing. As Satoshi said before releasing 0.1 “The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust.” You don’t want people messing with the money. You can’t trust people and you certainly can’t trust the Keynesians. Taking this power away from the abusers gives power BACK to the people.
        malermeister 5y ago
        That's just more of you projecting your ideology. Fact is, you are trying to force your ideology on the world in an authoritarian manner and remove democratic choice. You might not agree with my view, but to try to suppress it is antidemocratic. > You don’t want people messing with the money. You don’t want people messing with the money. I do. You're trying to remove my democratic right to elect somebody who will do what I want. I don't care what Satoshi said - he's not some all-knowing saintlike figure. I want the central bank to be able to debase currency. I don't believe in the same things as you and you are attacking my democratic right to see my values reflected in society. > Taking this power away from the abusers gives power BACK to the people If you define "the people" as "everyone that agrees with you", sure. But that's an awfully authoritarian thing to do, isn't it?
randomhodler84 5y ago
Cryptocurrencies are harmful to the banking system and may weaken the state apparatus. Totally agreed. Lucky it’s opt-in and voluntary! You are welcome to earn and spend money in whatever currency you wish.
- throw0101a 5y ago
  > Totally agreed. Lucky it’s opt-in and voluntary! You are welcome to earn and spend money in whatever currency you wish. The environmental effects are not opt-in, they're externalized to everyone else living on the planet: * https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption/ https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption/
- malermeister 5y ago
  If a few people voluntarily break my state, my state is still broken. If a few terrorists voluntarily fly a plane into a building, they're still taking countless innocents with them.

jessaustin 5y ago

...trying to actively undermine democracy. What "democracy" is this? Is that the word you're using for a "choice" between Biden and Trump? Good grief.

malermeister 5y ago
Don't be so US-centric. Just cause one country is failing doesn't mean that all are.
- jessaustin 5y ago
  What direction are your obesity rates pointing? We are your future.

gruez 5y ago

>Bitcoin is an attack on the core foundations of our society and is trying to actively undermine democracy Without an attached justification I can't tell whether this is serious or not.

malermeister 5y ago
The justification is in the parent post. By removing control of money from the democratically elected state, you are creating a corporatist dystopia where only money itself is the highest power and the will of the people no longer has a way of being enforced. I'm a big beginner believer in Kreiskyan deficit spending for example. Good luck trying to do that once you can no longer print your own money.
- randomhodler84 5y ago
  In most of the west, capital already has the highest power. Unfortunate, but folks seem ok with it. I’m a big believer in sound money and sound fiscal policy. Deficit spending is stealing from the future. Bitcoin is sound money, hard money. You can’t steal from your children to pay your bills today.
  - malermeister 5y ago
    I strongly disagree with your views on "sound money" and fiscal policy. If you look at what Bruno Kreisky did, you'll see that he didn't "steal from" the future, he invested for it. He basically built the modern Austria I know and love. I also think the whole "stealing from the future" talking point is BS - to paraphrase Keynes, in the future we'll all be dead :-). But it's okay for us to disagree here. In a democracy, we can just vote for somebody that represents our views. If either of us can convince the majority to see things our way, we'll get our way. Now if we had an inflexible monetary system like the one you're proposing, even if the vast majority voted to do things my way, we couldn't anymore, because we robbed the democratically elected state of its power. This is what I mean when I say Bitcoin is antidemocratic. It entrenches your ideology on a technological level and removes all democratic control.
    - randomhodler84 5y ago
      And that’s a Good thing. As Satoshi said before releasing 0.1 “The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust.” You don’t want people messing with the money. You can’t trust people and you certainly can’t trust the Keynesians. Taking this power away from the abusers gives power BACK to the people.
      - malermeister 5y ago
        That's just more of you projecting your ideology. Fact is, you are trying to force your ideology on the world in an authoritarian manner and remove democratic choice. You might not agree with my view, but to try to suppress it is antidemocratic. > You don’t want people messing with the money. You don’t want people messing with the money. I do. You're trying to remove my democratic right to elect somebody who will do what I want. I don't care what Satoshi said - he's not some all-knowing saintlike figure. I want the central bank to be able to debase currency. I don't believe in the same things as you and you are attacking my democratic right to see my values reflected in society. > Taking this power away from the abusers gives power BACK to the people If you define "the people" as "everyone that agrees with you", sure. But that's an awfully authoritarian thing to do, isn't it?

randomhodler84 5y ago

Cryptocurrencies are harmful to the banking system and may weaken the state apparatus. Totally agreed. Lucky it’s opt-in and voluntary! You are welcome to earn and spend money in whatever currency you wish.

throw0101a 5y ago
> Totally agreed. Lucky it’s opt-in and voluntary! You are welcome to earn and spend money in whatever currency you wish. The environmental effects are not opt-in, they're externalized to everyone else living on the planet: * https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption/ https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption/
malermeister 5y ago
If a few people voluntarily break my state, my state is still broken. If a few terrorists voluntarily fly a plane into a building, they're still taking countless innocents with them.