4 ms·

I hate to hate, but I've seen this idea tried, and fail, before. A lot. I think the first one was called web tribes or something, in the late 90s, I had someo

I hate to hate, but I've seen this idea tried, and fail, before. A lot. I think the first one was called web tribes or something, in the late 90s, I had someone pitch the idea to me since. I get a sense that there are some good reasons why the idea doesn't take off, I'm sure someone smarter and more savvy could enumerate them.

bambax 5y ago
Yes, I think there also was an attempt by Google at some point. Discord, Reddit, HN, Twitter are all successful variations around a similar concept. HN in particular is url based (comments are attached to a url for the most part). I don't know why the "pure comments" version always fail, but it certainly does; it may have something to do with community building... Maybe we're not interested in anybody's comment, but only in comments from specific people with specific interests...?
- giantg2 5y ago
  With Chrome's market share and more sites not wanting to moderate comments, I'm a little surprised it didn't catch on (depending on the circumstances at that point in time).
- xd1936 5y ago
  The lyrics site Genius also attempted this[1][2] 1. https://genius.com/web-annotator https://genius.com/web-annotator 2. https://www.theverge.com/2016/5/25/11505454/news-genius-annotate-the-web-content-security-policy-vulnerability https://www.theverge.com/2016/5/25/11505454/news-genius-anno...
- ksarw 5y ago
  Yes, it was called Google Sidewiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Sidewiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Sidewiki I think perhaps Google had too much skin in the game already. If you ask me, its actually to their advantage to offload it to an independent party for the sake of neutrality. Ah yes community is also another reason! It is tricky to build a community, at least I wasn't sure what community to start with. That's why I chose to create a private sphere where its just you and your friends discussing and sharing links privately in. a chronological feed, and was hoping that could create enough pull for a public community to develop.
john-doe 5y ago
I think hypothes.is is doing fine.
- ksarw 5y ago
  I think hypothes.is has pulled it off the best so far! It's just presentation-wise they've gone for academia and also not put much effort into aggregation
ksarw 5y ago
Yup! I think the fact that the idea has been tried so many times though, its doomed to succeed one day ;) There's no doubt of the value it would it would bring if it did take off; usually though after a spectacular release it just dies. Moderation, timing, and marketing/presentation are the main ones that I can think of based on the predecessors that I have seen (Dissenter, Relay Chat, hypothes.is, etc). I'd love to hear your takes on what other reasons could be or what the biggest ones are. I actually haven't heard of web tribes though, so I'll read up on it.
- misterbwong 5y ago
  Don't forget the biggest challenge: network effects. FB is a competitor here. Many people use their FB feed to post interesting URL's and comment on them.
  - ksarw 5y ago
    Yup, cold start problem is one of our main challenges, and we'll be trying out a variety of approaches to solve it. Actually the Netvyne extension can be used in conjunction with FB (and other social media platforms, for that matter. Netvyne is a tool/utility). The native screenshot capability of the extension is particularly useful when discussing what you see on Facebook with friends that might not otherwise have those items in their feed. Personally, I find that the FB feed doesn't have much value. There's really not much that you have that is worth sharing with your entire friends list; sharing with specifically selected sets of friends leads to a higher quality experience in my opinion. The fact that FB still by default has you post to your entire friends list indicates that they are most likely going for maximal engagement at the cost of relevance. With regard to URL sharing specifically, most people I know would just send those links via Messenger. My hunch is that this is because there is no alternative, and that the chronological feed format for sharing URLs is superior.
hammyhavoc 5y ago
Needs to be decentralized and open source from the start to have any chance of working long-term. And no, zero crypto as a "solution". Thing is, if people wanted you to leave comments, they would add comments. Every CMS worth its salt has this feature out of the box, and even static websites can add the likes of Disqus in seconds. This "solution" is already here in the form of traditional social media like Twitter, Facebook and Reddit if people want to provide any additional context or commentary. The problem with solutions like these is the potential for abuse, and somebody needing to moderate it ultimately if it ever does catch on in any meaningful way. At that point, you may as well just use an on-site comment section and let people deal with their own problems, and it's already decentralized, and a choice that people can make for themselves rather than having what's effectively graffiti showing up via a browser extension when people land on their site.
- ksarw 5y ago
  We'll be open sourcing the extension at 5AM Pacific Time! I'll also post an update on Twitter+LinkedIn It will be accessible at this link: https://github.com/netvyne/ext https://github.com/netvyne/ext Its true that there are ways to add comments to your site (Disqus being a pretty big one), but you still need to make the time to set it up (and maintain it). There's also the perspective of the one consuming the website content to consider. Regarding traditional social media, Netvyne at least is not a replacement but rather a tool that can be used in conjunction. It offers reduced friction in the sense that the comment section is there from the start, rather than having to wait for someone to share the page. The potential for abuse is indeed a big problem, that's why we've built in content moderation from the start. Based on the activity so far, it seems we've got it covered, and we'll be focusing on the other issues as mentioned in this thread, namely marketing and community. If you have any thoughts on how to approach these, I'd love to hear it! Graffiti is not permitted and will be removed as part of the moderation insofar as it does not contribute to a civil discussion. I am aware of what happened with Dissenter, and I believe that civility is integral to the value that comments bring.
  - itake 5y ago
    How does the content moderation work?

bambax 5y ago

Yes, I think there also was an attempt by Google at some point. Discord, Reddit, HN, Twitter are all successful variations around a similar concept. HN in particular is url based (comments are attached to a url for the most part). I don't know why the "pure comments" version always fail, but it certainly does; it may have something to do with community building... Maybe we're not interested in anybody's comment, but only in comments from specific people with specific interests...?

giantg2 5y ago
With Chrome's market share and more sites not wanting to moderate comments, I'm a little surprised it didn't catch on (depending on the circumstances at that point in time).
xd1936 5y ago
The lyrics site Genius also attempted this[1][2] 1. https://genius.com/web-annotator https://genius.com/web-annotator 2. https://www.theverge.com/2016/5/25/11505454/news-genius-annotate-the-web-content-security-policy-vulnerability https://www.theverge.com/2016/5/25/11505454/news-genius-anno...
ksarw 5y ago
Yes, it was called Google Sidewiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Sidewiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Sidewiki I think perhaps Google had too much skin in the game already. If you ask me, its actually to their advantage to offload it to an independent party for the sake of neutrality. Ah yes community is also another reason! It is tricky to build a community, at least I wasn't sure what community to start with. That's why I chose to create a private sphere where its just you and your friends discussing and sharing links privately in. a chronological feed, and was hoping that could create enough pull for a public community to develop.

john-doe 5y ago

I think hypothes.is is doing fine.

ksarw 5y ago
I think hypothes.is has pulled it off the best so far! It's just presentation-wise they've gone for academia and also not put much effort into aggregation

ksarw 5y ago

Yup! I think the fact that the idea has been tried so many times though, its doomed to succeed one day ;) There's no doubt of the value it would it would bring if it did take off; usually though after a spectacular release it just dies. Moderation, timing, and marketing/presentation are the main ones that I can think of based on the predecessors that I have seen (Dissenter, Relay Chat, hypothes.is, etc). I'd love to hear your takes on what other reasons could be or what the biggest ones are. I actually haven't heard of web tribes though, so I'll read up on it.

misterbwong 5y ago
Don't forget the biggest challenge: network effects. FB is a competitor here. Many people use their FB feed to post interesting URL's and comment on them.
- ksarw 5y ago
  Yup, cold start problem is one of our main challenges, and we'll be trying out a variety of approaches to solve it. Actually the Netvyne extension can be used in conjunction with FB (and other social media platforms, for that matter. Netvyne is a tool/utility). The native screenshot capability of the extension is particularly useful when discussing what you see on Facebook with friends that might not otherwise have those items in their feed. Personally, I find that the FB feed doesn't have much value. There's really not much that you have that is worth sharing with your entire friends list; sharing with specifically selected sets of friends leads to a higher quality experience in my opinion. The fact that FB still by default has you post to your entire friends list indicates that they are most likely going for maximal engagement at the cost of relevance. With regard to URL sharing specifically, most people I know would just send those links via Messenger. My hunch is that this is because there is no alternative, and that the chronological feed format for sharing URLs is superior.

hammyhavoc 5y ago

Needs to be decentralized and open source from the start to have any chance of working long-term. And no, zero crypto as a "solution". Thing is, if people wanted you to leave comments, they would add comments. Every CMS worth its salt has this feature out of the box, and even static websites can add the likes of Disqus in seconds. This "solution" is already here in the form of traditional social media like Twitter, Facebook and Reddit if people want to provide any additional context or commentary. The problem with solutions like these is the potential for abuse, and somebody needing to moderate it ultimately if it ever does catch on in any meaningful way. At that point, you may as well just use an on-site comment section and let people deal with their own problems, and it's already decentralized, and a choice that people can make for themselves rather than having what's effectively graffiti showing up via a browser extension when people land on their site.

ksarw 5y ago
We'll be open sourcing the extension at 5AM Pacific Time! I'll also post an update on Twitter+LinkedIn It will be accessible at this link: https://github.com/netvyne/ext https://github.com/netvyne/ext Its true that there are ways to add comments to your site (Disqus being a pretty big one), but you still need to make the time to set it up (and maintain it). There's also the perspective of the one consuming the website content to consider. Regarding traditional social media, Netvyne at least is not a replacement but rather a tool that can be used in conjunction. It offers reduced friction in the sense that the comment section is there from the start, rather than having to wait for someone to share the page. The potential for abuse is indeed a big problem, that's why we've built in content moderation from the start. Based on the activity so far, it seems we've got it covered, and we'll be focusing on the other issues as mentioned in this thread, namely marketing and community. If you have any thoughts on how to approach these, I'd love to hear it! Graffiti is not permitted and will be removed as part of the moderation insofar as it does not contribute to a civil discussion. I am aware of what happened with Dissenter, and I believe that civility is integral to the value that comments bring.
- itake 5y ago
  How does the content moderation work?