7 ms·

>Java would be the same success as PHP .. it might be everywhere but due to all kinds of side forces. People like you that complain about C,PHP,Java etc forget

>Java would be the same success as PHP .. it might be everywhere but due to all kinds of side forces. People like you that complain about C,PHP,Java etc forget the history , your favorite cool language did not exist at that time or if it existed had probably a lot of downsides. Also many complainers do not work with the languages and repeat like parrots something they read. I would love to get some perfect programming language, something with more maths in it that forces thinking of solutions and less glueing shit together or rewriting X and CoolLang for my CV.

deleted 5y ago
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agumonkey 5y ago
And what is that history I have forgotten ? Was java an embedded project at first ? yes Was it then a client side universal solution ? yes is it still any of those two ? no Also please don't make comments on me assuming I'm parroting, that would be nice :)
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  > Was it then a client side universal solution ? yes This remains true?
  - agumonkey 5y ago
    I rarely run into client side programs being better (or even interesting) due to java/jvm. Eclipse was quite a clusterf.. (at least when I left that side in 2008). Note that I'm not anti Java. I just think its course was fluctuating across time and "success" is really a strange term. The rare times people were happy about Java was the advanced JIT.
    - whimsicalism 5y ago
      IntelliJ/Pycharm?
      - agumonkey 5y ago
        IntelliJ might be better than Eclipse/Netbeans but it's still not the massive success Java planned. A few exception in the IT side of the world.
        simion314 5y ago
        >IntelliJ might be better than Eclipse/Netbeans Is better then any other similarly featured IDE, so good that people pay for it rather then use free alternatives
        agumonkey 5y ago
        I know I used it for ages back when they started MPS
    - simion314 5y ago
      Minecraft Java Edition IMO has this giant community because it is easy to mod and this is because of Java since the devs did not create modding tools. I am sure it was much easy for one person to develop such a complex game in a manged language too , from my experience with desktop apps the ones I made in Adobe AIR using AS3 had a lot fewer bugs and fewer support tickets and we got cross platform too. I also worked on a Java screen sharing in browser web conference solution back when this was not possible with native stuff or with Flash, if you understood the language you could get good performance.
- simion314 5y ago
  >Also please don't make comments on me assuming I'm parroting, that would be nice :) I did not said you specifically but I doubt you have years of experience in PHP and Java but let me know How what was the better alternative back then? Writing webpackes in C or some proprietary language with a paid compiler? Was there something much better and for some reason people used PHp because was cool and were tons of "write in PHP zelots"? From my memory the LAMP stack was free and was easy to start with, Java was much more productive then the alternatives and it had good tools, books and documentation. I can't think at any good alternative except the late C# but Microsoft was to incompetent to do the right thing and kept it proprietary and Windows only for a long time.
  - agumonkey 5y ago
    I don't think the word productive ever reached my brain when I was learning websphere. Annotation driven servlets never felt exciting or clean (unlike the post closure / decorator era where you can write stuff clearly and rapidly). I'm calling for a winner language here, I'm saying praising java position is a strange notion of success, it's everywhere indeed, but for what reasons ?
    - simion314 5y ago
      > don't think the word productive ever reached my brain when I was learning websphere. So what else was more productive? you said PHP is not the answer and "websphere" is not Java the language or Java the ecosystem (think of the many Java libraries out there and at the good enough Java standard library compared to others)

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agumonkey 5y ago

And what is that history I have forgotten ? Was java an embedded project at first ? yes Was it then a client side universal solution ? yes is it still any of those two ? no Also please don't make comments on me assuming I'm parroting, that would be nice :)

whimsicalism 5y ago
> Was it then a client side universal solution ? yes This remains true?
- agumonkey 5y ago
  I rarely run into client side programs being better (or even interesting) due to java/jvm. Eclipse was quite a clusterf.. (at least when I left that side in 2008). Note that I'm not anti Java. I just think its course was fluctuating across time and "success" is really a strange term. The rare times people were happy about Java was the advanced JIT.
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    IntelliJ/Pycharm?
    - agumonkey 5y ago
      IntelliJ might be better than Eclipse/Netbeans but it's still not the massive success Java planned. A few exception in the IT side of the world.
      - simion314 5y ago
        >IntelliJ might be better than Eclipse/Netbeans Is better then any other similarly featured IDE, so good that people pay for it rather then use free alternatives
        agumonkey 5y ago
        I know I used it for ages back when they started MPS
  - simion314 5y ago
    Minecraft Java Edition IMO has this giant community because it is easy to mod and this is because of Java since the devs did not create modding tools. I am sure it was much easy for one person to develop such a complex game in a manged language too , from my experience with desktop apps the ones I made in Adobe AIR using AS3 had a lot fewer bugs and fewer support tickets and we got cross platform too. I also worked on a Java screen sharing in browser web conference solution back when this was not possible with native stuff or with Flash, if you understood the language you could get good performance.
simion314 5y ago
>Also please don't make comments on me assuming I'm parroting, that would be nice :) I did not said you specifically but I doubt you have years of experience in PHP and Java but let me know How what was the better alternative back then? Writing webpackes in C or some proprietary language with a paid compiler? Was there something much better and for some reason people used PHp because was cool and were tons of "write in PHP zelots"? From my memory the LAMP stack was free and was easy to start with, Java was much more productive then the alternatives and it had good tools, books and documentation. I can't think at any good alternative except the late C# but Microsoft was to incompetent to do the right thing and kept it proprietary and Windows only for a long time.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  I don't think the word productive ever reached my brain when I was learning websphere. Annotation driven servlets never felt exciting or clean (unlike the post closure / decorator era where you can write stuff clearly and rapidly). I'm calling for a winner language here, I'm saying praising java position is a strange notion of success, it's everywhere indeed, but for what reasons ?
  - simion314 5y ago
    > don't think the word productive ever reached my brain when I was learning websphere. So what else was more productive? you said PHP is not the answer and "websphere" is not Java the language or Java the ecosystem (think of the many Java libraries out there and at the good enough Java standard library compared to others)