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Show HN: Netvyne – a Chrome extension to leave and read comments on any URL

47 points by ksarw 5y ago

odiroot 5y ago
So a rebirth of Stumbleupon?
- ksarw 5y ago
  I think it shares some similarities! Netvyne has more of a focus on the leaving/reading of comments as you browse.
bellyfullofbac 5y ago
For a short while in the 90's there was a software called uTok, it acted as a HTTP proxy for your browsers and modified the HTML of websites to add the users' comments. Yeah this was when not many cared about HTTPS. I remember people attaching comments to headlines on cnn.com's homepage, although that page changes frequently. And of course the comments were political. Hey OP, how will you prevent the lunatics from attacking sites like whitehouse.gov? Edit: the fact that a screenshot of your app shows the page "CNN Facts First: Fact check: Five enduring lies about the Capitol [...]" (showing people they can comment on/criticize/flame war such pages), and that you've mentioned Gab's Dissenter, doesn't inspire me with confidence about your leanings. I sound like a McCarthyist, but well...
- ksarw 5y ago
  I hadn't heard of uTok before, I'll add that to my reading list as well! Sounds like they were doing something similar in style to the lyrics site Genius's attempt mentioned elsewhere in this thread. We're committed to maintaining civil discussion, and you can get a sense of what we're on watch for by checking out our content policy: https://www.netvyne.com/content-policy https://www.netvyne.com/content-policy The platform has no favorites, which you'll see for yourself in time.
wilford205 5y ago
ksarw 5y ago
Hi HN, trust 2022 is off to a good start! I’d like to introduce Netvyne, a tool which at its core is a Chrome extension that empowers you (the consumer) to leave and read comments on any URL. There are many challenges with the current state of commenting on the Internet. Not every website has a comment section. Sites that do have a comment section sometimes close it for new comments. Even sites that go as far as to moderate the comments sometimes do so with noticeable bias. While comments can help consumers make informed decisions, our goal at Netvyne is to also address the emotional need to share and witness authentic reactions. I was first introduced to this Chrome extension idea by a friend a couple years ago in college, and worked on it on-and-off as a side project (in Python+JS). At the start of last year, I picked it up as a serious undertaking and re-wrote the tool in Golang+React with a tightly-knit team of 5 fulltime people. A bunch of premature optimization and feature creep later, we're ready to launch with what I believe has a modicum of utility. The idea is not particularly new, in fact I remember reading a HN comment that said this idea gets tried every two years or so. What differentiates us is that we’re building content moderation from the very start, which is more of an operations problem than a technical problem. We’re committed to civility of discussion over all else; if that means sacrificing “free” speech, or taking the site down temporarily while we scale up moderation, so be it. Timing-wise, people are increasingly familiar with the idea of Chrome extensions, and have also recognized the value of comments due in large part to the popularity of Reddit in recent years. If you have a moment, try out our extension and please let us know what you think! https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/netvyne-extension/hdmpoglhdchngeiefpiaiilfeicjjfap https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/netvyne-extension/... To make this interesting, we’ll donate $100 to Wikipedia if you can make us take the site down for more than 50% of any given 24 hour period (the site is considered down if there is no way for you to leave a comment). On the flip side, if abusive/spam comments make up less than 10% of all comments AND there are more than 5,000 comments by the end of the week, I’ll open-source the client-side parts of the tool (web, iOS app & extension). You can track these stats for yourself: https://netvyne.com/status https://netvyne.com/status. We’ll post updates on Twitter (@netvyne) as we go! Khalil & The Netvyne Team
Ali_Boukeroui 5y ago
calibwilliams 5y ago
Interesting tool. Consider me in… Fed-up of often being moderated-out of nytimes.com because of my conservative predisposition.
- CharlesW 5y ago
  To quote the post from ksarw, "What differentiates us is that we’re building content moderation from the very start".
  - rpdillon 5y ago
    Agreed. I was curious what their policies are, and they were very easy to find[0]: > To this end, omments [sic] that contain one or more of the following themes will be put behind a warning: Gore,Extreme Violence,Sexual Themes,Misinformation,Extreme Obscenity > Comments that contain one or more of the following are not allowed and will be removed: > Spam/Scam,Nudity,Bot comment, Abuse/Harassment, Illegal Content My takeaway: - Bots are essentially banned - Any comment Netvyne's team considers extremely violent, gory, or containing misinformation will be put behind a warning, but not removed - Any comment Netvyne's team considers to be abuse or harassment will be removed - Any comment containing nudity will be removed Nudity is notoriously difficult to moderate[1], and I suspect drawing the line on misinformation will be similarly challenging. I like the idea overall, though it would be neat to see a federated approach where different standards can be enforced on different instances. I'm not yet convinced one-size-fits-all discussion rules work well at scale. [0]: https://www.netvyne.com/content-policy https://www.netvyne.com/content-policy [1]: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20211124/15241648004/content-moderation-case-studies-facebook-suspends-account-showing-topless-aboriginal-women-2016.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20211124/15241648004/conte...
    - ksarw 5y ago
      It seems you have a pretty solid grasp of our policy; its all in order to meet our goal of enabling civil discussion. Indeed, misinformation is tough and is in my opinion the trickiest one. I actually didn't think nudity would be as difficult to moderate, but still somewhere up there. Thanks for sharing an example, a similar example did come to mind and we'll definitely have to iterate on our policy as time goes on. Tolerance does vary across people, and I agree one-size-fits-all doesn't exist. That being said, sometimes is a sacrifice one is willing to make in order to participate as part of a broader audience. With regards to federation, I am a bit familiar with Mastodon, which is what came to mind first. I see the main concept, but it does come at a cost; some things are better (or at least more user-friendly) when they are integrated. But I supposed as time goes on people could be willing to put in more work to customize their experiences. Also, thanks for catching the typo, its fixed now!
rickcarlino 5y ago
This reminds me of a plugin from the 90s called Third voice: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Voice https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Voice It was somewhat controversial at the time.
- esens 5y ago
  These things are constantly re-invented. Will StumbleUpon come back as well?
  - dqv 5y ago
    >Will StumbleUpon come back as well? Yes. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29647694 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29647694
- ksarw 5y ago
  Oh I don't remember seeing this one before, thanks for sharing! I think there is indeed a controversial aspect to this idea, which we aim to address with better moderation (for civility).
- VikingCoder 5y ago
  And Sidewiki... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Sidewiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Sidewiki
ekanes 5y ago
This is a great concept, and would also go very neatly with a patreon/micropayments concept (yes, also tried before) where I can give $.01 (or more, etc) to the page by clicking a button. Good luck with it!
- josefrichter 5y ago
  you mean brave browser?
  - ekanes 5y ago
    Oh, didn't know about that aspect. I'll check it out. Thanks.
- ksarw 5y ago
  That's an interesting idea, I'll think about it! And thanks! :)
ekanes 5y ago
You should open-source it anyways, which will help adoption a lot, and ease people past things like this: "* The notice you see about having access to your history and website data is automatically generated because this extension runs on every tab. But it does NOT actually monitor your browsing history or require your personal information to work properly." The world is correctly nervous about extensions that run on every page.
- ksarw 5y ago
  I am leaning toward open-sourcing it; perhaps HN can help me make the decision ;) Regarding extensions that run on every page, I totally understand the concern. That's why we already built in the option to make it manually run network requests (right click on the extension icon, then click on the options tab). It does make the comment count badge not work though if you choose to do this.
  - ksarw 5y ago
    I've thought about it some more, and have decided to open source the extension at 5AM Pacific Time. I'll also post an update on Twitter+LinkedIn It will be accessible at this link: https://github.com/netvyne/ext https://github.com/netvyne/ext Just a heads up, this will be as-is ;) so please excuse the commit messages and disorganization.
- goldbattle 5y ago
  I agree with this. What happens when I got to my bank with this extension? I would rather have either what another commenter suggested (a bookmark) or be able to see the source. I assume they use the "activeTab" permission to give temporary access to the current tab? From a quick look, it seems to just request access to all pages? I am not sure if chrome really has a elegant way to handle per-website requests (as compared to per-tab). https://robwu.nl/crxviewer/?crx=https%3A%2F%2Fchrome.google.com%2Fwebstore%2Fdetail%2Fnetvyne-extension%2Fhdmpoglhdchngeiefpiaiilfeicjjfap https://robwu.nl/crxviewer/?crx=https%3A%2F%2Fchrome.google....
  - ksarw 5y ago
jacknews 5y ago
I hate to hate, but I've seen this idea tried, and fail, before. A lot. I think the first one was called web tribes or something, in the late 90s, I had someone pitch the idea to me since. I get a sense that there are some good reasons why the idea doesn't take off, I'm sure someone smarter and more savvy could enumerate them.
- bambax 5y ago
  Yes, I think there also was an attempt by Google at some point. Discord, Reddit, HN, Twitter are all successful variations around a similar concept. HN in particular is url based (comments are attached to a url for the most part). I don't know why the "pure comments" version always fail, but it certainly does; it may have something to do with community building... Maybe we're not interested in anybody's comment, but only in comments from specific people with specific interests...?
  - giantg2 5y ago
    With Chrome's market share and more sites not wanting to moderate comments, I'm a little surprised it didn't catch on (depending on the circumstances at that point in time).
  - xd1936 5y ago
    The lyrics site Genius also attempted this[1][2] 1. https://genius.com/web-annotator https://genius.com/web-annotator 2. https://www.theverge.com/2016/5/25/11505454/news-genius-annotate-the-web-content-security-policy-vulnerability https://www.theverge.com/2016/5/25/11505454/news-genius-anno...
  - ksarw 5y ago
    Yes, it was called Google Sidewiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Sidewiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Sidewiki I think perhaps Google had too much skin in the game already. If you ask me, its actually to their advantage to offload it to an independent party for the sake of neutrality. Ah yes community is also another reason! It is tricky to build a community, at least I wasn't sure what community to start with. That's why I chose to create a private sphere where its just you and your friends discussing and sharing links privately in. a chronological feed, and was hoping that could create enough pull for a public community to develop.
sinbadpalomar 5y ago
this is reddit?
- ksarw 5y ago
  No, this is Netvyne ;)
KennyBlanken 5y ago
Content moderation is a labor problem, not a technical or "operations" problem. There's simply not enough profit in any online forum/platform to cover the labor costs of effective moderation, which is why Facebook/Google use AI-based pre-review of reports - and very cheap labor from countries where both language and cultural barriers lead to lots of problems. How are you intending to fix that? Especially since you have a lot of extra overhead because you have to handle an API call for every page a user loads in their browser? Please publish a privacy policy and disclose what data you collect/retain, and when. Otherwise, I'm assuming your plugin is collecting extensive client-side data including every URL I visit, my IP, etc. Also, why haven't you done more of a quiet roll-out before announcing it on HN? Your status page says you've got ~100 comments. I really don't understand why you wouldn't have rolled this out via an invite system, starting with trusted friends, your professional network, etc.
- ksarw 5y ago
  Over time, we believe can build tools to differentiate ourselves with regard to quality of moderation. Indeed, this is the challenge that we intend to undertake head on. Our privacy policy is here: https://netvyne.com/privacy-policy https://netvyne.com/privacy-policy A TL;DR is we only collect information when you actively post a comment/content, which includes the IP address of the request. We don't collect data on pages you are just visiting. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, you can also disable the extension from running on every site you visit, either via Chrome or from our very own options menu (it may result in the comment count badge no longer working). Its already been cycled with trusted friends, and now I believe its ready for the virtuous cycle that comes with a broader audience. The value of the tool becomes more noticeable with a broader consumer base.
gwbas1c 5y ago
Seems like an idea that's had a lot of false starts. Best of luck to Netvyne. Some things to consider: Is Netvyne a community? (Like Hacker News or Reddit?) Should we expect a "Netvyne" slant to the comments, like all communities have? Assuming Netvyne is a community, would Netvyne ever evolve to have some form of content discovery? Specifically, look at how Hacker News is content discovery first. (You don't have to log in to see the list of links, and you don't even have to read the comments.) Otherwise, moderating all of the external comments for every ^#^@$ website seems like a daunting task. Best of luck, though! IMO, I wish there was a standardize "comments engine" for every website that didn't require making an account, but allowed the web site owner to do their own moderation. I know that's impractical, but I can still wish!
- ksarw 5y ago
  Thanks for the kind words! I'd say Netvyne is a tool, and it remains to be seen how exactly it evolves. I'm not too sure what you mean by slant, are you referring to something like the "culture"? Content discovery is already there on the main site (or at least content aggregation), is that what you mean? On the site (and the extension), you can see links and even leave comments using the default temporary account. Moderating is a daunting task indeed, but we're up for the challenge! There is Disqus by the way, which I think addresses what you are saying in terms of allowing the site owner to do their own moderation. Though I think it requires making an account?
gwbas1c 5y ago
FYI: As soon as I created an account, I couldn't find a link to install the browser plugin. Might want to detect that the user doesn't have the plugin and provide a link to install it.
- ksarw 5y ago
  Good point, the link to install the browser plugin is always in the navigation bar https://www.netvyne.com/downloads https://www.netvyne.com/downloads, but perhaps we need to give a pop-up or some indication of it when people first log in
marpstar 5y ago
Anyone else remember Excite Chat[1] from the late 1990s? Same idea, except chat rooms instead of "comments". [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/nostalgia/comments/2ruqbg https://www.reddit.com/r/nostalgia/comments/2ruqbg
- ksarw 5y ago
  I hadn't heard of this one before, I'll read up on it! The Netvyne extension does have a live chat tab as well by the way; its definitely a different experience with live chat vs comments. For sites that a lot of people are on at once, like when a big platform goes down and people go to the official announcement, there could be quite a buzz. Would the messages in these chat rooms disappear if you left and rejoined, or would you still see a full history?
kevincox 5y ago
I know most users don't care but I won't install a browser extension that has full access to every page for this. Have you considered also supporting an API + bookmarklet? It would be as simple as something like https://www.netvyne.com/?url=%s https://www.netvyne.com/?url=%s which would create and redirect you to the comment page for that URL and a simple bookmarklet to generate that URL for the current page. I also use Firefox so your extension isn't available anyways.
- claudiusd 5y ago
  The privacy risk of installing extensions that have full access to every page you visit is enormous. It includes the risk of exposing passwords and credit card numbers. Using a bookmarklet is a much better idea since users can control where they run.
  - kevincox 5y ago
    And for a simple bookmarklet like this the source would be so trivial that you can read it and verify that all it does is redirect to the computed url.
  - ksarw 5y ago
    Can you see how many comments a site already has using a bookmarklet as you browse? I also think that there is something to be said for being able to see the comments in the site itself, though perhaps that can be done as well. I'm actually not too familiar with bookmarklets, I'll have to read some more. I appreciate the tips!
    - kevincox 5y ago
      No, the comment indicator would be the missing feature. But personally I would very happily skip that feature for the huge security and privacy advantage. You could display the comments in-site but then you are bringing back all of the security and privacy concerns. (I guess you could have some middle-ground if the code to add the iframe is trivially simple?)
ibdf 5y ago
Forget comment moderation... comment spamming is going to be a much harder challenge. It's already time-consuming to remove spam from one or two sites and to constantly battle new spamming techniques - I don't see how this tool would work well on a global scale. What about websites/comments in other languages? How do you moderate content you don't understand? What are your rules for what's allowed and not allowed? Also, people often comment when they are displeased with something. As a website owner, why would I want negative comments on my own website? Or comments I have no control of? What if users are just spreading misinformation about my website on my website? Can I request this tool not to work within my web pages?
- ksarw 5y ago
  1.) Right now we're supporting only English; later as demand picks up we'll start supporting other languages too. 2.) It will be based on best effort, and improve over time with feedback :) 3.) Content policy is here: https://www.netvyne.com/content-policy https://www.netvyne.com/content-policy Civility is main priority; if a comment/website falls under civil discourse and was removed, the author will be able to submit an appeal. For grey areas, again it will be best effort. Mistakes will be made, we'll do our best to learn and correct ourselves fast. 4.) a/b.) The consumer has the right to discuss your website, and give feedback. Comments do not belong to the site. c) If you find misinformation, please report it using the flag button and we will promptly override it with a fact-check for the consumers to see. d) Netvyne makes no exceptions.
nwatab 5y ago
What's your plan or motivation? hunting an unicorn?
- ksarw 5y ago
  Unicorn? No, that's not the end goal. We're trying to address the unmet need to be able to comment on any URL in a civil manner. This is an unmet need that has frustrated us (the Netvyne Team), and our friends circle, for quite some time. Incidentally, the tool works even better as more and more people use it.
nwatab 5y ago
I've just made my account. Feel free to add me: XSqYvtISSOWEOruXUtV4Jg Edited: This would be correct one @eap3z2ejs56t4tbria94kg
- ksarw 5y ago
  Added! This reminds me I should make it more clear which one is which haha The point being that you can have a username that is unknown to your friends on the very same platform.
guilhas 5y ago
Wasn't this Gab dissenter? Like other comments point out this ideia comes up now and then, still I think it is worth exploring https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gab_(social_network) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gab_(social_network)
- ksarw 5y ago
  Dissenter is indeed one of the many predecessors! I'm glad you share the sentiment that its worth exploring; if you do get a chance to try it out, let us know what you think/would like to see!
rronalddas 5y ago
What happens to the comments on dead links? Do you guys delete them?
- ksarw 5y ago
  Good question! We'll be deleting comments on dead links; I don't think they serve much purpose since they don't show up on the main site's aggregator, nor will people likely be visiting dead links with the extension installed. There's quite a bit of funky edge cases with URLs actually, and we'll just keep chipping away at them based on the feedback we're getting!
ksarw 5y ago
Just following up, we have now open-sourced the extension! https://github.com/netvyne/ext https://github.com/netvyne/ext

47 points by ksarw 5y ago

odiroot 5y ago

So a rebirth of Stumbleupon?

ksarw 5y ago
I think it shares some similarities! Netvyne has more of a focus on the leaving/reading of comments as you browse.

bellyfullofbac 5y ago

For a short while in the 90's there was a software called uTok, it acted as a HTTP proxy for your browsers and modified the HTML of websites to add the users' comments. Yeah this was when not many cared about HTTPS. I remember people attaching comments to headlines on cnn.com's homepage, although that page changes frequently. And of course the comments were political. Hey OP, how will you prevent the lunatics from attacking sites like whitehouse.gov? Edit: the fact that a screenshot of your app shows the page "CNN Facts First: Fact check: Five enduring lies about the Capitol [...]" (showing people they can comment on/criticize/flame war such pages), and that you've mentioned Gab's Dissenter, doesn't inspire me with confidence about your leanings. I sound like a McCarthyist, but well...

ksarw 5y ago
I hadn't heard of uTok before, I'll add that to my reading list as well! Sounds like they were doing something similar in style to the lyrics site Genius's attempt mentioned elsewhere in this thread. We're committed to maintaining civil discussion, and you can get a sense of what we're on watch for by checking out our content policy: https://www.netvyne.com/content-policy https://www.netvyne.com/content-policy The platform has no favorites, which you'll see for yourself in time.

wilford205 5y ago

ksarw 5y ago

Hi HN, trust 2022 is off to a good start! I’d like to introduce Netvyne, a tool which at its core is a Chrome extension that empowers you (the consumer) to leave and read comments on any URL. There are many challenges with the current state of commenting on the Internet. Not every website has a comment section. Sites that do have a comment section sometimes close it for new comments. Even sites that go as far as to moderate the comments sometimes do so with noticeable bias. While comments can help consumers make informed decisions, our goal at Netvyne is to also address the emotional need to share and witness authentic reactions. I was first introduced to this Chrome extension idea by a friend a couple years ago in college, and worked on it on-and-off as a side project (in Python+JS). At the start of last year, I picked it up as a serious undertaking and re-wrote the tool in Golang+React with a tightly-knit team of 5 fulltime people. A bunch of premature optimization and feature creep later, we're ready to launch with what I believe has a modicum of utility. The idea is not particularly new, in fact I remember reading a HN comment that said this idea gets tried every two years or so. What differentiates us is that we’re building content moderation from the very start, which is more of an operations problem than a technical problem. We’re committed to civility of discussion over all else; if that means sacrificing “free” speech, or taking the site down temporarily while we scale up moderation, so be it. Timing-wise, people are increasingly familiar with the idea of Chrome extensions, and have also recognized the value of comments due in large part to the popularity of Reddit in recent years. If you have a moment, try out our extension and please let us know what you think! https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/netvyne-extension/hdmpoglhdchngeiefpiaiilfeicjjfap https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/netvyne-extension/... To make this interesting, we’ll donate $100 to Wikipedia if you can make us take the site down for more than 50% of any given 24 hour period (the site is considered down if there is no way for you to leave a comment). On the flip side, if abusive/spam comments make up less than 10% of all comments AND there are more than 5,000 comments by the end of the week, I’ll open-source the client-side parts of the tool (web, iOS app & extension). You can track these stats for yourself: https://netvyne.com/status https://netvyne.com/status. We’ll post updates on Twitter (@netvyne) as we go! Khalil & The Netvyne Team

Ali_Boukeroui 5y ago

calibwilliams 5y ago

Interesting tool. Consider me in… Fed-up of often being moderated-out of nytimes.com because of my conservative predisposition.

CharlesW 5y ago
To quote the post from ksarw, "What differentiates us is that we’re building content moderation from the very start".
- rpdillon 5y ago
  Agreed. I was curious what their policies are, and they were very easy to find[0]: > To this end, omments [sic] that contain one or more of the following themes will be put behind a warning: Gore,Extreme Violence,Sexual Themes,Misinformation,Extreme Obscenity > Comments that contain one or more of the following are not allowed and will be removed: > Spam/Scam,Nudity,Bot comment, Abuse/Harassment, Illegal Content My takeaway: - Bots are essentially banned - Any comment Netvyne's team considers extremely violent, gory, or containing misinformation will be put behind a warning, but not removed - Any comment Netvyne's team considers to be abuse or harassment will be removed - Any comment containing nudity will be removed Nudity is notoriously difficult to moderate[1], and I suspect drawing the line on misinformation will be similarly challenging. I like the idea overall, though it would be neat to see a federated approach where different standards can be enforced on different instances. I'm not yet convinced one-size-fits-all discussion rules work well at scale. [0]: https://www.netvyne.com/content-policy https://www.netvyne.com/content-policy [1]: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20211124/15241648004/content-moderation-case-studies-facebook-suspends-account-showing-topless-aboriginal-women-2016.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20211124/15241648004/conte...
  - ksarw 5y ago
    It seems you have a pretty solid grasp of our policy; its all in order to meet our goal of enabling civil discussion. Indeed, misinformation is tough and is in my opinion the trickiest one. I actually didn't think nudity would be as difficult to moderate, but still somewhere up there. Thanks for sharing an example, a similar example did come to mind and we'll definitely have to iterate on our policy as time goes on. Tolerance does vary across people, and I agree one-size-fits-all doesn't exist. That being said, sometimes is a sacrifice one is willing to make in order to participate as part of a broader audience. With regards to federation, I am a bit familiar with Mastodon, which is what came to mind first. I see the main concept, but it does come at a cost; some things are better (or at least more user-friendly) when they are integrated. But I supposed as time goes on people could be willing to put in more work to customize their experiences. Also, thanks for catching the typo, its fixed now!

rickcarlino 5y ago

This reminds me of a plugin from the 90s called Third voice: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Voice https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Voice It was somewhat controversial at the time.

esens 5y ago
These things are constantly re-invented. Will StumbleUpon come back as well?
- dqv 5y ago
  >Will StumbleUpon come back as well? Yes. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29647694 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29647694
ksarw 5y ago
Oh I don't remember seeing this one before, thanks for sharing! I think there is indeed a controversial aspect to this idea, which we aim to address with better moderation (for civility).
VikingCoder 5y ago
And Sidewiki... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Sidewiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Sidewiki

ekanes 5y ago

This is a great concept, and would also go very neatly with a patreon/micropayments concept (yes, also tried before) where I can give $.01 (or more, etc) to the page by clicking a button. Good luck with it!

josefrichter 5y ago
you mean brave browser?
- ekanes 5y ago
  Oh, didn't know about that aspect. I'll check it out. Thanks.
ksarw 5y ago
That's an interesting idea, I'll think about it! And thanks! :)

ekanes 5y ago

You should open-source it anyways, which will help adoption a lot, and ease people past things like this: "* The notice you see about having access to your history and website data is automatically generated because this extension runs on every tab. But it does NOT actually monitor your browsing history or require your personal information to work properly." The world is correctly nervous about extensions that run on every page.

ksarw 5y ago
I am leaning toward open-sourcing it; perhaps HN can help me make the decision ;) Regarding extensions that run on every page, I totally understand the concern. That's why we already built in the option to make it manually run network requests (right click on the extension icon, then click on the options tab). It does make the comment count badge not work though if you choose to do this.
- ksarw 5y ago
  I've thought about it some more, and have decided to open source the extension at 5AM Pacific Time. I'll also post an update on Twitter+LinkedIn It will be accessible at this link: https://github.com/netvyne/ext https://github.com/netvyne/ext Just a heads up, this will be as-is ;) so please excuse the commit messages and disorganization.
goldbattle 5y ago
I agree with this. What happens when I got to my bank with this extension? I would rather have either what another commenter suggested (a bookmark) or be able to see the source. I assume they use the "activeTab" permission to give temporary access to the current tab? From a quick look, it seems to just request access to all pages? I am not sure if chrome really has a elegant way to handle per-website requests (as compared to per-tab). https://robwu.nl/crxviewer/?crx=https%3A%2F%2Fchrome.google.com%2Fwebstore%2Fdetail%2Fnetvyne-extension%2Fhdmpoglhdchngeiefpiaiilfeicjjfap https://robwu.nl/crxviewer/?crx=https%3A%2F%2Fchrome.google....
- ksarw 5y ago

jacknews 5y ago

I hate to hate, but I've seen this idea tried, and fail, before. A lot. I think the first one was called web tribes or something, in the late 90s, I had someone pitch the idea to me since. I get a sense that there are some good reasons why the idea doesn't take off, I'm sure someone smarter and more savvy could enumerate them.

bambax 5y ago
Yes, I think there also was an attempt by Google at some point. Discord, Reddit, HN, Twitter are all successful variations around a similar concept. HN in particular is url based (comments are attached to a url for the most part). I don't know why the "pure comments" version always fail, but it certainly does; it may have something to do with community building... Maybe we're not interested in anybody's comment, but only in comments from specific people with specific interests...?
- giantg2 5y ago
  With Chrome's market share and more sites not wanting to moderate comments, I'm a little surprised it didn't catch on (depending on the circumstances at that point in time).
- xd1936 5y ago
  The lyrics site Genius also attempted this[1][2] 1. https://genius.com/web-annotator https://genius.com/web-annotator 2. https://www.theverge.com/2016/5/25/11505454/news-genius-annotate-the-web-content-security-policy-vulnerability https://www.theverge.com/2016/5/25/11505454/news-genius-anno...
- ksarw 5y ago
  Yes, it was called Google Sidewiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Sidewiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Sidewiki I think perhaps Google had too much skin in the game already. If you ask me, its actually to their advantage to offload it to an independent party for the sake of neutrality. Ah yes community is also another reason! It is tricky to build a community, at least I wasn't sure what community to start with. That's why I chose to create a private sphere where its just you and your friends discussing and sharing links privately in. a chronological feed, and was hoping that could create enough pull for a public community to develop.

sinbadpalomar 5y ago

this is reddit?

ksarw 5y ago
No, this is Netvyne ;)

KennyBlanken 5y ago

Content moderation is a labor problem, not a technical or "operations" problem. There's simply not enough profit in any online forum/platform to cover the labor costs of effective moderation, which is why Facebook/Google use AI-based pre-review of reports - and very cheap labor from countries where both language and cultural barriers lead to lots of problems. How are you intending to fix that? Especially since you have a lot of extra overhead because you have to handle an API call for every page a user loads in their browser? Please publish a privacy policy and disclose what data you collect/retain, and when. Otherwise, I'm assuming your plugin is collecting extensive client-side data including every URL I visit, my IP, etc. Also, why haven't you done more of a quiet roll-out before announcing it on HN? Your status page says you've got ~100 comments. I really don't understand why you wouldn't have rolled this out via an invite system, starting with trusted friends, your professional network, etc.

ksarw 5y ago
Over time, we believe can build tools to differentiate ourselves with regard to quality of moderation. Indeed, this is the challenge that we intend to undertake head on. Our privacy policy is here: https://netvyne.com/privacy-policy https://netvyne.com/privacy-policy A TL;DR is we only collect information when you actively post a comment/content, which includes the IP address of the request. We don't collect data on pages you are just visiting. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, you can also disable the extension from running on every site you visit, either via Chrome or from our very own options menu (it may result in the comment count badge no longer working). Its already been cycled with trusted friends, and now I believe its ready for the virtuous cycle that comes with a broader audience. The value of the tool becomes more noticeable with a broader consumer base.

gwbas1c 5y ago

Seems like an idea that's had a lot of false starts. Best of luck to Netvyne. Some things to consider: Is Netvyne a community? (Like Hacker News or Reddit?) Should we expect a "Netvyne" slant to the comments, like all communities have? Assuming Netvyne is a community, would Netvyne ever evolve to have some form of content discovery? Specifically, look at how Hacker News is content discovery first. (You don't have to log in to see the list of links, and you don't even have to read the comments.) Otherwise, moderating all of the external comments for every ^#^@$ website seems like a daunting task. Best of luck, though! IMO, I wish there was a standardize "comments engine" for every website that didn't require making an account, but allowed the web site owner to do their own moderation. I know that's impractical, but I can still wish!

ksarw 5y ago
Thanks for the kind words! I'd say Netvyne is a tool, and it remains to be seen how exactly it evolves. I'm not too sure what you mean by slant, are you referring to something like the "culture"? Content discovery is already there on the main site (or at least content aggregation), is that what you mean? On the site (and the extension), you can see links and even leave comments using the default temporary account. Moderating is a daunting task indeed, but we're up for the challenge! There is Disqus by the way, which I think addresses what you are saying in terms of allowing the site owner to do their own moderation. Though I think it requires making an account?

gwbas1c 5y ago

FYI: As soon as I created an account, I couldn't find a link to install the browser plugin. Might want to detect that the user doesn't have the plugin and provide a link to install it.

ksarw 5y ago
Good point, the link to install the browser plugin is always in the navigation bar https://www.netvyne.com/downloads https://www.netvyne.com/downloads, but perhaps we need to give a pop-up or some indication of it when people first log in

marpstar 5y ago

Anyone else remember Excite Chat[1] from the late 1990s? Same idea, except chat rooms instead of "comments". [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/nostalgia/comments/2ruqbg https://www.reddit.com/r/nostalgia/comments/2ruqbg

ksarw 5y ago
I hadn't heard of this one before, I'll read up on it! The Netvyne extension does have a live chat tab as well by the way; its definitely a different experience with live chat vs comments. For sites that a lot of people are on at once, like when a big platform goes down and people go to the official announcement, there could be quite a buzz. Would the messages in these chat rooms disappear if you left and rejoined, or would you still see a full history?

kevincox 5y ago

I know most users don't care but I won't install a browser extension that has full access to every page for this. Have you considered also supporting an API + bookmarklet? It would be as simple as something like https://www.netvyne.com/?url=%s https://www.netvyne.com/?url=%s which would create and redirect you to the comment page for that URL and a simple bookmarklet to generate that URL for the current page. I also use Firefox so your extension isn't available anyways.

claudiusd 5y ago
The privacy risk of installing extensions that have full access to every page you visit is enormous. It includes the risk of exposing passwords and credit card numbers. Using a bookmarklet is a much better idea since users can control where they run.
- kevincox 5y ago
  And for a simple bookmarklet like this the source would be so trivial that you can read it and verify that all it does is redirect to the computed url.
- ksarw 5y ago
  Can you see how many comments a site already has using a bookmarklet as you browse? I also think that there is something to be said for being able to see the comments in the site itself, though perhaps that can be done as well. I'm actually not too familiar with bookmarklets, I'll have to read some more. I appreciate the tips!
  - kevincox 5y ago
    No, the comment indicator would be the missing feature. But personally I would very happily skip that feature for the huge security and privacy advantage. You could display the comments in-site but then you are bringing back all of the security and privacy concerns. (I guess you could have some middle-ground if the code to add the iframe is trivially simple?)

ibdf 5y ago

Forget comment moderation... comment spamming is going to be a much harder challenge. It's already time-consuming to remove spam from one or two sites and to constantly battle new spamming techniques - I don't see how this tool would work well on a global scale. What about websites/comments in other languages? How do you moderate content you don't understand? What are your rules for what's allowed and not allowed? Also, people often comment when they are displeased with something. As a website owner, why would I want negative comments on my own website? Or comments I have no control of? What if users are just spreading misinformation about my website on my website? Can I request this tool not to work within my web pages?

ksarw 5y ago
1.) Right now we're supporting only English; later as demand picks up we'll start supporting other languages too. 2.) It will be based on best effort, and improve over time with feedback :) 3.) Content policy is here: https://www.netvyne.com/content-policy https://www.netvyne.com/content-policy Civility is main priority; if a comment/website falls under civil discourse and was removed, the author will be able to submit an appeal. For grey areas, again it will be best effort. Mistakes will be made, we'll do our best to learn and correct ourselves fast. 4.) a/b.) The consumer has the right to discuss your website, and give feedback. Comments do not belong to the site. c) If you find misinformation, please report it using the flag button and we will promptly override it with a fact-check for the consumers to see. d) Netvyne makes no exceptions.

nwatab 5y ago

What's your plan or motivation? hunting an unicorn?

ksarw 5y ago
Unicorn? No, that's not the end goal. We're trying to address the unmet need to be able to comment on any URL in a civil manner. This is an unmet need that has frustrated us (the Netvyne Team), and our friends circle, for quite some time. Incidentally, the tool works even better as more and more people use it.

nwatab 5y ago

I've just made my account. Feel free to add me: XSqYvtISSOWEOruXUtV4Jg Edited: This would be correct one @eap3z2ejs56t4tbria94kg

ksarw 5y ago
Added! This reminds me I should make it more clear which one is which haha The point being that you can have a username that is unknown to your friends on the very same platform.

guilhas 5y ago

Wasn't this Gab dissenter? Like other comments point out this ideia comes up now and then, still I think it is worth exploring https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gab_(social_network) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gab_(social_network)

ksarw 5y ago
Dissenter is indeed one of the many predecessors! I'm glad you share the sentiment that its worth exploring; if you do get a chance to try it out, let us know what you think/would like to see!

rronalddas 5y ago

What happens to the comments on dead links? Do you guys delete them?

ksarw 5y ago
Good question! We'll be deleting comments on dead links; I don't think they serve much purpose since they don't show up on the main site's aggregator, nor will people likely be visiting dead links with the extension installed. There's quite a bit of funky edge cases with URLs actually, and we'll just keep chipping away at them based on the feedback we're getting!

ksarw 5y ago

Just following up, we have now open-sourced the extension! https://github.com/netvyne/ext https://github.com/netvyne/ext