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Truly bizarre to ask as the head of state for foreign military intervention in your own country to dump down civil protest. Almost like it’s just a russian pupp
by siva7 5y ago
Truly bizarre to ask as the head of state for foreign military intervention in your own country to dump down civil protest. Almost like it’s just a russian puppet state
- culebron21 5y agoKazakhstan asked CSTO contries (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Organization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_Security_Treaty_Org...) to do that, whether we like this or not (I don't). So that's nothing bizzare, and 3000 Russian paratroopers (plus 1000 from other conutries) don't make such a huge country a puppet state. P.S. So funny, you complain you don't get the logic, and I get downvoted for explaining it, rather than calling names.
- siva7 5y agoIt absolutely is bizarre, even if they are military allies. Can you imagine Canada asking for US military on their own grounds to fight civilian protests? Me neither. That’s a definition of puppet state.
- culebron21 5y agoNo, it's not the definition of puppet state. Wikipedia: > A puppet state is a state that is de jure independent but de facto completely dependent upon an outside power and subject to its orders. Even though Kazakh president does become dependent on Russian forces to some degree, I don't see how 3000 soldiers can control a country with an army of 100,000, National guard of 32,000 and 86,000 policemen. It may give an upper hand, but against whom? There's even no organized opposition. If you make paragons Czechoslovakia uprisings in 1968, then USSR sent 500,000 soldiers and 5,000 tanks in a 10 times smaller country. So it was 3 orders of magnitude larger intervention than this. Using a military treaty in case of a popular unrest may be illegitimate, but it's nowhere near a puppet state.
- janeroe 5y agoThat's enough for subversive activity. Especially with their previous experience in Ukraine (I'm informed the people, if one can still call them that, from Donbas will help to "bring peace" in Kazakhstan).
- culebron21 5y agoTrue, but Russian government saw current governments of Ukraine and Kazakhstan as allies, and the new Ukrainian one as an enemy. This is because of their belief in conspiracies behind mass protests.
- KaiserPro 5y agoI don't think its a definition of a puppet state, its more an act of desperation. I suspect that the president has realised that the police and army are not entirely on his side, so is wanting to have some "loyal" troops to send round and kill the protestors, in a way that the domestic troops are less likely to.
- anonair 5y agoMore likely that the foreign troops are needed to guard critical infrastructure while domestic loyal troops are busy with the terrorists
- throwawayay02 5y agoI forget how many heads of states have conveniently asked for US intervention in their own country.
- Xyloform 5y agoKazakhstan is part of the Collective Security Treaty Organization (CSTO) similar to Nato which comprises of ex-Soviet countries. I'm sure CSTO has an obligation to help.
- siva7 5y agoNATO doesn’t have any obligation to “help” break down civilian protests by sending out paratroopers from one of its members to another member state so no it’s not similar.
- VictorPath 5y agoNATO not only has this obligation, with Gladio it was active in violently breaking down civilian protests in Italy. This was actually revealed by the center-right government in Italy in 1990, because they were more scared of the US/NATO involvement in Italian domestic affairs, then their own left leaning working class.
- siva7 5y agoDon’t you think that an global intelligence operation is a bit different than officially asking for foreign military intervention in your own country against civilians?
- janeroe 5y agoHi user who signed up specifically to leave this comment (which is not suspicious at all). No, they don't. CSTO is for external threats only. To circumvent this limitation the old farts call people taking part in the protest terrorists (this reminds me of something by the way).
- anonair 5y agoThey are actually terrorists by definition. I mean those taking over the airport, police stations etc. There are peaceful protesters, but the troops are not after them
- poilcn 5y agoThey don't ask to bring troops to fight on the streets. The help could be in the form of putting security checkpoints and guarding critical infrastructure, constructions. Which would release military and police forces currently occupied by these tasks to fight the marauders and other criminals. There is no "protest" at this point.
- siva7 5y agoAlright, the civilian protesters are now “criminals” who are getting shot down by government forces. I guess these “terrorists” deserve what they get. Thanks for enlightening me.
- poilcn 5y agoIf the government is "bad" it doesn't make everyone who stands against it "good". It doesn't make everyone who is against the government unified body with one positive goal. You don't need all the "protesters" to be thugs. 1% is enough to make cities dangerous place for everyone, including other protesters. You know nothing about the country or the people who live there or what exactly going on right now, but automatically side with one of the part of the conflict based on your feelings.
- q1w2 5y agoThis comment lacks nuance and is brim with sarcasm. Understanding geopolitics is an exercise nuance. Kazakhstan has to deal with huge and strong foreign adversaries, and has no strong alliances, yet must protect distant cities which all border China, Russia, and central asian nations, with a large desert in the center. It is militarily indefensible and Russia, Turkey, Pakistan, and the US, all want Kazakhstan's resources and strategically located bases. Contrary to your sentiment, Kazakhstan has been conducting de-Russianification with the deployment of language police to stop people from using Russian, and switching from the Cyrillic alphabet to the latin one. Below is an excellent article describing all the different pressures on the country and how it tries to balance foreign influences. https://globalcomment.com/is-russia-losing-or-tightening-its-grip-on-kazakhstan/ https://globalcomment.com/is-russia-losing-or-tightening-its... Interestingly, the most violent and organized protests are occurring in the South bordering China and Kyrgystan - a city which has people selling gov't subsidized cheap gas over the border in China on the black market for a 300% profit. That might be a big source for the organized violence. Curbing black market sales was the point of the change that sparked the unrest. Regardless of the cause, it is likely Russia is going to capitalize on this turmoil and provide continuity for the current President, by extracting some allegiance.