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Fun fact: in Japan, from what little I've seen, quite a few young kids (think till lower elementary school) tend to speak in third person, and is generally seen

Fun fact: in Japan, from what little I've seen, quite a few young kids (think till lower elementary school) tend to speak in third person, and is generally seen as "cute". However, it sounds just as much unnatural (or even annoying unless the person is known to have some sort of issue) to speak in the third person for other age groups, especially working adults.

mjklin 5y ago
That’s funny, the same is the case with small children in China. Instead of “我饿了” (I’m hungry) they could say “人家饿了” which is something like “people are hungry”. This is also seen as cute and naturally goes away as they get older.
watwut 5y ago
Kids talk in third person about themselves in slavic languages too. It is normal as they are learning to talk. They switch to first person by themselves later.
ninkendo 5y ago
Interesting. Does speaking in the third person sound “childish” to people in Japan? (That would explain Pokémon quite a bit at least.)
- ramchip 5y ago
  It does sound childish, but I know women in their 30s who still speak like that. For a man it would be very strange / unusual though.
  - sersi 5y ago
    Yes, but I'd say that women in their 30s who speak like that purposefully try to be childish.
- smukherjee19 5y ago
  It depends on how you define childish, and also the age of the person in question, but in general: Yes. Also, in case of adult women, if they speak in third person, to me it sounds あざとい(azatoi). I am sorry, I don't know how to phrase it in English without ruining the nuance. It's a mix of calculating, cunning, and a bit flirtatious? Either way, you also need to consider the tone of their voice, body language, and the contents itself. (Maybe if they want you to carry the shopping bag because it's a bit heavy for them, they might use this way of speaking.) That being said, I do not have any real-life examples to back this up so take it with a grain of salt.
  - CiPHPerCoder 5y ago
    > I am sorry, I don't know how to phrase it in English without ruining the nuance. It's a mix of calculating, cunning, and a bit flirtatious? The closest word I can think for what you describe is insincere. See also: almost every influencer on TikTok.
    - smukherjee19 5y ago
      I see where you are coming from with that one. However, this acting doesn't often have that strong of a negative connotation as insincere seems to have. To me, it's a more light thing, a bit of playful acting, atleast for the scenario I mentioned in the previous comment. Going between languages is hard. :)
      - CiPHPerCoder 5y ago
        Well, I'm not so sure that insincere has negative connotations in English anymore, given how ubiquitous this behavior is. But point taken.
      - cipheredStones 5y ago
        "Disingenuous" in the sense of "pretending to be unaware or unsophisticated; faux-naïf"?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
This is, I think, a quirk of the Japanese language. It famously has many of what we would consider first person pronouns, which have a feeling to me of kinda being third person themselves. Or maybe it would be more accurate to say they don't have such a strict delineation. Occasionally one can even hear someone use, for example, 'boku' as a second person pronoun. It's maybe kinda like in a casino a dealer might say that "the house" wins, or a judge might say "this court" regarding a decision. Only many such 'role' pronouns exist in Japanese. One can imagine growing up as a child and hearing Japanese with its variety of first-person pronouns, which also are not used as much as we use them in English, and choosing to use your name as it is consistently associated with you. That said, I've had only a smattering of Japanese study, so definitely take all of that with a grain of salt.
- VeninVidiaVicii 5y ago
  Whoa, how on earth could boku be a _second person_ pronoun? Admittedly I don’t speak any Japanese, but referring to myself, when I actually say “you” sounds confusing.
  - coldpie 5y ago
    There's some good info about Japanese 1st- and 2nd-person pronouns here, including a brief mention of boku in a 2nd person position, but unfortunately doesn't go into any depth. https://legendsoflocalization.com/personal-pronouns-in-japanese/ https://legendsoflocalization.com/personal-pronouns-in-japan...
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    Thinking of it as 'I' or 'you' is misleading. That's kinda what I'm trying to say in my post: it's more like these are all third-person roles. If you think of 'boku' as more like 'this boy' than 'I' or 'me' it becomes easier to understand I think.
  - spect88 5y ago
    I usually use boku and my girlfriend sometimes calls me boku, whether she's talking to me or about me to someone else. There's no confusion because she couldn't be using boku to mean herself. I'm not a linguist, but it seems like there's no grammatical difference between first/second/third person in Japanese - you can consider all the sentences to be in third person.
ian0 5y ago
Same here in Indonesia. If not their first name, then their title "younger brother/sister" (adik), "older brother sister" (kakak). Interestingly, when the second child is born, the "adik" becomes the "kakak", which you would think would be confusing but the switch happens pretty naturally.
bighi 5y ago
Kids at young age are more a thing than a person, so it kind of fits.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
This is not uncommon in the West either. A lot of parents talk to themselves by title in the third person to their children, e.g. "Daddy doesn't want to play right now, daddy is working". It's even worse if they refer to each other by a 'parental' name. Just makes me wince. To people that actually do this, do not erase yourself; you are a person, you have needs and an identity of your own. You can express your needs, not a mythical 3rd person parental figure.
- Fnoord 5y ago
  When my wife calls me 'dad' or 'daddy' I know she might be talking as well to one of our kids instead of to me. It gives it context, and it also does something with me by increasing my responsibility instead of slacking. After all, if you are once a dad or mom, you're always one. Honestly, I think its a great way to get some perspective (but I am on the spectrum). I also find it plain fun, and -sometimes- cute. Doesn't mean I always do it in family circle. Its just that, in a work environment, there's an etiquette, and this one isn't part of it. If you're too different (e.g. weird in this context), they don't want you, and one way or another you'll get cast out. Goes for weird people too.
  - bunfunton 5y ago
    Counterexample - When my wife calls me daddy she’s definitely not referring to my role as a father.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
      A perfect example of the importance of context.
    - larkost 5y ago
      Are you sure she is not subtly convincing you to take the role? Presumably she is temping you into the manner in which it happens.
- morgelgluff 5y ago
  You are not just ”a person” when you are a parent. You are a person with a very special role and you spend a lot of time acting in that role. As I see it, the border is fuzzy and the overlap large, but the role and the person are not the same.

mjklin 5y ago

That’s funny, the same is the case with small children in China. Instead of “我饿了” (I’m hungry) they could say “人家饿了” which is something like “people are hungry”. This is also seen as cute and naturally goes away as they get older.

watwut 5y ago

Kids talk in third person about themselves in slavic languages too. It is normal as they are learning to talk. They switch to first person by themselves later.

ninkendo 5y ago

Interesting. Does speaking in the third person sound “childish” to people in Japan? (That would explain Pokémon quite a bit at least.)

ramchip 5y ago
It does sound childish, but I know women in their 30s who still speak like that. For a man it would be very strange / unusual though.
- sersi 5y ago
  Yes, but I'd say that women in their 30s who speak like that purposefully try to be childish.
smukherjee19 5y ago
It depends on how you define childish, and also the age of the person in question, but in general: Yes. Also, in case of adult women, if they speak in third person, to me it sounds あざとい(azatoi). I am sorry, I don't know how to phrase it in English without ruining the nuance. It's a mix of calculating, cunning, and a bit flirtatious? Either way, you also need to consider the tone of their voice, body language, and the contents itself. (Maybe if they want you to carry the shopping bag because it's a bit heavy for them, they might use this way of speaking.) That being said, I do not have any real-life examples to back this up so take it with a grain of salt.
- CiPHPerCoder 5y ago
  > I am sorry, I don't know how to phrase it in English without ruining the nuance. It's a mix of calculating, cunning, and a bit flirtatious? The closest word I can think for what you describe is insincere. See also: almost every influencer on TikTok.
  - smukherjee19 5y ago
    I see where you are coming from with that one. However, this acting doesn't often have that strong of a negative connotation as insincere seems to have. To me, it's a more light thing, a bit of playful acting, atleast for the scenario I mentioned in the previous comment. Going between languages is hard. :)
    - CiPHPerCoder 5y ago
      Well, I'm not so sure that insincere has negative connotations in English anymore, given how ubiquitous this behavior is. But point taken.
    - cipheredStones 5y ago
      "Disingenuous" in the sense of "pretending to be unaware or unsophisticated; faux-naïf"?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

This is, I think, a quirk of the Japanese language. It famously has many of what we would consider first person pronouns, which have a feeling to me of kinda being third person themselves. Or maybe it would be more accurate to say they don't have such a strict delineation. Occasionally one can even hear someone use, for example, 'boku' as a second person pronoun. It's maybe kinda like in a casino a dealer might say that "the house" wins, or a judge might say "this court" regarding a decision. Only many such 'role' pronouns exist in Japanese. One can imagine growing up as a child and hearing Japanese with its variety of first-person pronouns, which also are not used as much as we use them in English, and choosing to use your name as it is consistently associated with you. That said, I've had only a smattering of Japanese study, so definitely take all of that with a grain of salt.

VeninVidiaVicii 5y ago
Whoa, how on earth could boku be a _second person_ pronoun? Admittedly I don’t speak any Japanese, but referring to myself, when I actually say “you” sounds confusing.
- coldpie 5y ago
  There's some good info about Japanese 1st- and 2nd-person pronouns here, including a brief mention of boku in a 2nd person position, but unfortunately doesn't go into any depth. https://legendsoflocalization.com/personal-pronouns-in-japanese/ https://legendsoflocalization.com/personal-pronouns-in-japan...
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  Thinking of it as 'I' or 'you' is misleading. That's kinda what I'm trying to say in my post: it's more like these are all third-person roles. If you think of 'boku' as more like 'this boy' than 'I' or 'me' it becomes easier to understand I think.
- spect88 5y ago
  I usually use boku and my girlfriend sometimes calls me boku, whether she's talking to me or about me to someone else. There's no confusion because she couldn't be using boku to mean herself. I'm not a linguist, but it seems like there's no grammatical difference between first/second/third person in Japanese - you can consider all the sentences to be in third person.

ian0 5y ago

Same here in Indonesia. If not their first name, then their title "younger brother/sister" (adik), "older brother sister" (kakak). Interestingly, when the second child is born, the "adik" becomes the "kakak", which you would think would be confusing but the switch happens pretty naturally.

bighi 5y ago

Kids at young age are more a thing than a person, so it kind of fits.

Cthulhu_ 5y ago

This is not uncommon in the West either. A lot of parents talk to themselves by title in the third person to their children, e.g. "Daddy doesn't want to play right now, daddy is working". It's even worse if they refer to each other by a 'parental' name. Just makes me wince. To people that actually do this, do not erase yourself; you are a person, you have needs and an identity of your own. You can express your needs, not a mythical 3rd person parental figure.

Fnoord 5y ago
When my wife calls me 'dad' or 'daddy' I know she might be talking as well to one of our kids instead of to me. It gives it context, and it also does something with me by increasing my responsibility instead of slacking. After all, if you are once a dad or mom, you're always one. Honestly, I think its a great way to get some perspective (but I am on the spectrum). I also find it plain fun, and -sometimes- cute. Doesn't mean I always do it in family circle. Its just that, in a work environment, there's an etiquette, and this one isn't part of it. If you're too different (e.g. weird in this context), they don't want you, and one way or another you'll get cast out. Goes for weird people too.
- bunfunton 5y ago
  Counterexample - When my wife calls me daddy she’s definitely not referring to my role as a father.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
    A perfect example of the importance of context.
  - larkost 5y ago
    Are you sure she is not subtly convincing you to take the role? Presumably she is temping you into the manner in which it happens.
morgelgluff 5y ago
You are not just ”a person” when you are a parent. You are a person with a very special role and you spend a lot of time acting in that role. As I see it, the border is fuzzy and the overlap large, but the role and the person are not the same.