3 ms·

This has been on the cards for a while, I can’t see how this is so controversial. It’s fairly easy to pass a driving test. You can then buy a 2 tonne monster w

This has been on the cards for a while, I can’t see how this is so controversial. It’s fairly easy to pass a driving test. You can then buy a 2 tonne monster with heaps of power and very little to police how you’re driving. You can be speeding, intimidating other people etc and you’re unlikely to get caught. As someone who strives to drive safely, I welcome this. Oh and Big Bad Government track my phone and the Covid vaccine microchip already so what’s another tracker?

magicalhippo 5y ago
> It’s fairly easy to pass a driving test. That's quite a country-specific statement. Here in Norway[1] there's a non-trivial 17 hour mandatory course required, including at least 13 hours of driving with a licensed instructor, as well as a theory test and a final 1-hour driving test. They've extended the mandatory parts quite a bit in recent times as part of Vision Zero[2]. [1]: https://www.vegvesen.no/en/driving-licences/driver-training/how-to-get-a-driving-licence/passenger-car--b/?lang=en https://www.vegvesen.no/en/driving-licences/driver-training/... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vision_Zero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vision_Zero
rimliu 5y ago
> It’s fairly easy to pass a driving test. Not in EU.
- rich_sasha 5y ago
  I hold an EU driving license. Anyway, my point isn’t that it’s trivial, rather that it’s easy to pass for someone determined to do it. The expectation is that almost every able-bodies adult, and many disabled, should be able to do it with some work. And that’s all you need to get your hands in an SUV or an old-but-powerful Audi. A bit like with guns in parts of the US, any crazy person with time and money can get one. So policing this mess is key.
throwawaylinux 5y ago
Lots of people are subservient to authority so I absolutely understand why you and a lot of people have this opinion and I can see there are pros to doing such things. Do you accept that there are people who place value on privacy from government and believe that governments can abuse their powers, and that they have a valid opinion so a balance which takes that into account should be found, including the possibility that existing surveillance might already be too much?
- rich_sasha 5y ago
  I sort of agree in principle, but with some practical caveats that bother me. I agree privacy is a good thing. I care about my privacy. However, it must be balanced against other things too. I care about my health as well, and won’t keep secrets from my doctors, or prohibit them from sharing information, as strictly necessary. So there’s a balance, nothing is absolute. Even my right to live isn’t absolute, if I threaten someone or am called by my country to fight in a war, that right is trumped by something larger. Two, I’d argue the problem is more with the government than in the privacy. We form societies, with customs and governments, because somehow being together is better than in your own. In a democracy, the government is supposed to be for the people, not an enemy. I’m not a starry-eyed optimist, I’d just rather focus on “how do I fix government trust”, rather than “how do I better keep secrets from the government about a mundane daily activity such as driving”. Finally, I’ve been tailgated, ran off the road, intimidated by too many morons on the road. Never had an accident bout could have done many times, possibly killing me and people I care about. Again, I prefer a right to get morons off the road to the illusory privacy - I’m already traceable to the government. I’d rather focus on privacy safeguards. For example, if my data is accessed, it needs a court warrant, and if the investigation doesn’t lead to conviction, I am told about it, with a right to pursue unlawful use. I believe that’s how phone taps work in Europe - is this fundamentally different?
  - throwawaylinux 5y ago
    Interesting comment, just so I understand a little better -- do you have a dash cam and have you used it to get footage of any of the many road rage incidents you find yourself in to give to the police? If so, did the police achieve any result, and if not do you expect the police and courts would be inclined to get the morons of the road for you if you were able to furnish them with such evidence?

magicalhippo 5y ago

> It’s fairly easy to pass a driving test. That's quite a country-specific statement. Here in Norway[1] there's a non-trivial 17 hour mandatory course required, including at least 13 hours of driving with a licensed instructor, as well as a theory test and a final 1-hour driving test. They've extended the mandatory parts quite a bit in recent times as part of Vision Zero[2]. [1]: https://www.vegvesen.no/en/driving-licences/driver-training/how-to-get-a-driving-licence/passenger-car--b/?lang=en https://www.vegvesen.no/en/driving-licences/driver-training/... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vision_Zero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vision_Zero

rimliu 5y ago

> It’s fairly easy to pass a driving test. Not in EU.

rich_sasha 5y ago
I hold an EU driving license. Anyway, my point isn’t that it’s trivial, rather that it’s easy to pass for someone determined to do it. The expectation is that almost every able-bodies adult, and many disabled, should be able to do it with some work. And that’s all you need to get your hands in an SUV or an old-but-powerful Audi. A bit like with guns in parts of the US, any crazy person with time and money can get one. So policing this mess is key.

throwawaylinux 5y ago

Lots of people are subservient to authority so I absolutely understand why you and a lot of people have this opinion and I can see there are pros to doing such things. Do you accept that there are people who place value on privacy from government and believe that governments can abuse their powers, and that they have a valid opinion so a balance which takes that into account should be found, including the possibility that existing surveillance might already be too much?

rich_sasha 5y ago
I sort of agree in principle, but with some practical caveats that bother me. I agree privacy is a good thing. I care about my privacy. However, it must be balanced against other things too. I care about my health as well, and won’t keep secrets from my doctors, or prohibit them from sharing information, as strictly necessary. So there’s a balance, nothing is absolute. Even my right to live isn’t absolute, if I threaten someone or am called by my country to fight in a war, that right is trumped by something larger. Two, I’d argue the problem is more with the government than in the privacy. We form societies, with customs and governments, because somehow being together is better than in your own. In a democracy, the government is supposed to be for the people, not an enemy. I’m not a starry-eyed optimist, I’d just rather focus on “how do I fix government trust”, rather than “how do I better keep secrets from the government about a mundane daily activity such as driving”. Finally, I’ve been tailgated, ran off the road, intimidated by too many morons on the road. Never had an accident bout could have done many times, possibly killing me and people I care about. Again, I prefer a right to get morons off the road to the illusory privacy - I’m already traceable to the government. I’d rather focus on privacy safeguards. For example, if my data is accessed, it needs a court warrant, and if the investigation doesn’t lead to conviction, I am told about it, with a right to pursue unlawful use. I believe that’s how phone taps work in Europe - is this fundamentally different?
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  Interesting comment, just so I understand a little better -- do you have a dash cam and have you used it to get footage of any of the many road rage incidents you find yourself in to give to the police? If so, did the police achieve any result, and if not do you expect the police and courts would be inclined to get the morons of the road for you if you were able to furnish them with such evidence?