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The idea that governments, regardless of their legitimacy or level of competence, can't be trusted to manage the money supply is anti-democratic. Because, afte

by lottin 5y ago

The idea that governments, regardless of their legitimacy or level of competence, can't be trusted to manage the money supply is anti-democratic. Because, after all, governments are also responsible for maintiaing law and order, which is even a more delicate issue since it involves the use of violence. So the government can be trusted to use violence responsibly, but it can't be trusted to manage the money supply? No, this is stupid. The implication is that governments can't be trusted and are essentially oppressive and evil. And democracy isn't a lesser evil, it's just evil. This is the basic tenet of anarcho-capitalism.

randomhodler84 5y ago
Are you able to find a single government, democratic or not, in human history that did not debase their currency? It’s the story of every failure of every empire. Humans, and by extension governments cannot be trusted with the money supply. It is just human nature. I don’t think control of issuance of currency is even a matter of democracy — for it is not the people that elect the chair of the central banks, the imf, the bis. People have no say in the monetary policy, it is thrust upon them by the unelected. If the individual could have a choice, would any democratic candidate be bound to follow their wishes? So, instead, we bypass this. Step outside the system where it cannot be corrupted. You trust humans and governments too much. I trust math. Math won’t let you down like humans will.
- TomSwirly 5y ago
  So you have personally reviewed the code in each cryptocurrency you hold, and you understand all the math behind it?
  - randomhodler84 5y ago
    I certainly do. I’ve found bugs, submitted patches. I not only understand the math, but have written libraries and tools, audited cryptographic implementations and frequently communicate with other developers and engineers in the field. I have developed educational materials for folks and played with this technology a long time. I will admit I don’t grok every line of the science experiment geth (ethereum client), but I do understand the math, it is the same as Bitcoin. I haven’t been keeping up with Eth client nearly as much as BTC. Running an eth full node needs some real hardware. BTC runs on a potato.
- namlem 5y ago
  Debasing a currency is not necessarily a bad thing so long as inflation rates are kept under control. Sometimes it is necessary to print more money. I'm moderately pro-crypto myself, but I generally trust the Federal Reserve to do a good job.
  - randomhodler84 5y ago
    Keynesian lies. Luckily, with Bitcoin, we can opt out of such delusions.
- danielheath 5y ago
  I don’t even know where to start with this comment; it’s so full of non sequiter I find it challenging to assume good faith. Yes, empires have historically debased their currencies during a decline. Blaming the decline on debasing the currency rather than the other way around is an argument one could mount, but the evidence either way is scant. As far as elected governments hiring civil servants being anti-democratic goes, must every candidate for every role be voted on? At what point can the people vote for someone and delegate authority to them? The IMF was created by elected officials and exists with their support. You have the same say in that as all other voters; you just don’t like being outvoted and have elected to claim the rules are unfair instead.
danuker 5y ago
Have you seen what is happening in Venezuela? Turkey? Freedom and democracy is taken, not given. If you ever stop fighting, the government will become complacent and leech away a large part of an economy.
zozbot234 5y ago
There are plenty of governments that can't be trusted to maintain law and order, or to refrain from arbitrary violence. When that happens, we do our best to let people vote with their feet and obtain asylum protection elsewhere, to the greatest feasible extent. Do you view that as an "undemocratic" practice, too?
namlem 5y ago
There are plenty of undemocratic governments out there that can't be trusted to manage the money supply.

by lottin 5y ago

randomhodler84 5y ago

Are you able to find a single government, democratic or not, in human history that did not debase their currency? It’s the story of every failure of every empire. Humans, and by extension governments cannot be trusted with the money supply. It is just human nature. I don’t think control of issuance of currency is even a matter of democracy — for it is not the people that elect the chair of the central banks, the imf, the bis. People have no say in the monetary policy, it is thrust upon them by the unelected. If the individual could have a choice, would any democratic candidate be bound to follow their wishes? So, instead, we bypass this. Step outside the system where it cannot be corrupted. You trust humans and governments too much. I trust math. Math won’t let you down like humans will.

TomSwirly 5y ago
So you have personally reviewed the code in each cryptocurrency you hold, and you understand all the math behind it?
- randomhodler84 5y ago
  I certainly do. I’ve found bugs, submitted patches. I not only understand the math, but have written libraries and tools, audited cryptographic implementations and frequently communicate with other developers and engineers in the field. I have developed educational materials for folks and played with this technology a long time. I will admit I don’t grok every line of the science experiment geth (ethereum client), but I do understand the math, it is the same as Bitcoin. I haven’t been keeping up with Eth client nearly as much as BTC. Running an eth full node needs some real hardware. BTC runs on a potato.
namlem 5y ago
Debasing a currency is not necessarily a bad thing so long as inflation rates are kept under control. Sometimes it is necessary to print more money. I'm moderately pro-crypto myself, but I generally trust the Federal Reserve to do a good job.
- randomhodler84 5y ago
  Keynesian lies. Luckily, with Bitcoin, we can opt out of such delusions.
danielheath 5y ago
I don’t even know where to start with this comment; it’s so full of non sequiter I find it challenging to assume good faith. Yes, empires have historically debased their currencies during a decline. Blaming the decline on debasing the currency rather than the other way around is an argument one could mount, but the evidence either way is scant. As far as elected governments hiring civil servants being anti-democratic goes, must every candidate for every role be voted on? At what point can the people vote for someone and delegate authority to them? The IMF was created by elected officials and exists with their support. You have the same say in that as all other voters; you just don’t like being outvoted and have elected to claim the rules are unfair instead.

danuker 5y ago

Have you seen what is happening in Venezuela? Turkey? Freedom and democracy is taken, not given. If you ever stop fighting, the government will become complacent and leech away a large part of an economy.

zozbot234 5y ago

There are plenty of governments that can't be trusted to maintain law and order, or to refrain from arbitrary violence. When that happens, we do our best to let people vote with their feet and obtain asylum protection elsewhere, to the greatest feasible extent. Do you view that as an "undemocratic" practice, too?

namlem 5y ago

There are plenty of undemocratic governments out there that can't be trusted to manage the money supply.