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Crypto offers zero protection from fraud, as transactions are non reversible however if you pay by credit card goods are not delivered or if your card is used f

Crypto offers zero protection from fraud, as transactions are non reversible however if you pay by credit card goods are not delivered or if your card is used fraudulently, the credit card issuer can and will reverse the transactions. Also due to PCI standards almost all online transactions are done via a third party, PCI compliant payment processor. I don't see the value crypto is adding here. If you did have misplaced worries about being a victim to CC fraud, seems like it would be easier to use a prepaid credit card, debit card that you only transfer funds to when making purchases or a service like paypal.

kmmlng 5y ago
With credit cards, you have to give out your details to whoever you are paying. That party will save them somewhere and then there is a possibility that someone else will gain access to your details and abuse them. You won't ultimaltely lose money here, because your credit card company will reverse the transactions, as you said. Being the victim of credit card fraud is still a hassle, however. With crypto, the only thing you give out is your public key. No one can perform any fraudulent activity with just your public key. It is of course possible to be defrauded with crypto, but then it will be partially your fault because you did something you should not have. With credit cards, you can become the victim of fraud through no fault of your own. I do think that is a difference worth pointing out.
- jasongi 5y ago
  Sure, but I think the risk is overrated. Almost all online shops outsource payment processing to a third party payment gateway, which you can validate pretty easily. They never get access to your details in order to abuse them. Third party payment processor breaches where CC data is lost are quite rare I don't think I've read about one in a very long time. Sure, I guess you can't get phished out of secrets with crypto like you could with a credit card, but that's never happened to me, and probably won't happen to you unless you aren't very good at detecting dodgy websites. Also, if you fall for those kinds of scams, I have some monkey jpgs I want to sell you. The real benefit to crypto here is that you can send money, to anyone, anywhere in the world.
  - randomhodler84 5y ago
    The last time my cc was compromised is when the bad guys injected js into a large e-commerce site and stole the card data. This is a real threat. I’d rather not use any pull based payment mechanism if possible. Push only.
    - jasongi 5y ago
      I understand the potential security issues. But the only affect this would have had on you is you would have had to contact your bank to reissue the card and chargeback any fraudulent transaction. Consider a similar hack on a site that accepted Bitcoin instead of credit cards. The fraudulent JS replaces the payment address with the hacker's address and you send your coin to it. There's no getting your money back now. I know which outcome I would prefer. However based on your username there is probably some bias in your argument.
      - randomhodler84 5y ago
        Getting new cards is a pain, especially if you are traveling. You are without a card for a bit until it is replaced. And chargebacks are a headache. That is a good point about malware, However I would bet address substitution would be discovered a lot more quickly. Magecart was ripping vendors for weeks before the cc vendors tipped them off. 1 bad purchase flow and the customer complains and the site would investigate. It’s pwned for minutes not weeks. Cc theft can be silent and might only strike its victims months after the compromise. The difference is the victim. In a malware scenario, cc’s it’s the card holder, with cryptocurrency it’s the vendor that is getting screwed.
        jasongi 5y ago
        > The difference is the victim. In a malware scenario, cc’s it’s the card holder, with cryptocurrency it’s the vendor that is getting screwed. This makes no sense. The CC holder isn't screwed, they are mildly inconvenienced while they wait for a replacement card. It doesn't matter how many months after a breach it happens - the person who ends up without money is whe merchant who the fraudster used the stolen card with, because they will get a chargeback fee and lose stock (if they sent it out before chargebacks happen). The vendor isn't screwed in in the cryptocurrency situation. The vendor isn't out of pocket (except for losing a sale). The person who sent the money to the hacked address (i.e you) are. Maybe the vendor will decide to send you the product anyway because their site got hacked, but that would be entirely up to them and not a function of the payment method used. I can see how it might aid early detection. But I don't see how in that scenario you're safer using Bitcoin. The malware could be on the customers computer rather than the website. It could only be altering one in every 100 transactions. It could not be malware, it could just be a vendor selectively scamming. There are many nice features in cryptocurrency, but consumer protection is not one of them and it's a weird thing to espouse.
- Swenrekcah 5y ago
  True, but that anonymity could trivially (for some definition of trivial) be implemented by the CC issuer.
- yunohn 5y ago
  > With crypto, the only thing you give out is your public key That’s not really true. The service/product provider can and will ask for more details, like name, address, etc - it has nothing to do with the mode of payment.
  - dskloet 5y ago
    If it's an online service they don't need your address.

kmmlng 5y ago

With credit cards, you have to give out your details to whoever you are paying. That party will save them somewhere and then there is a possibility that someone else will gain access to your details and abuse them. You won't ultimaltely lose money here, because your credit card company will reverse the transactions, as you said. Being the victim of credit card fraud is still a hassle, however. With crypto, the only thing you give out is your public key. No one can perform any fraudulent activity with just your public key. It is of course possible to be defrauded with crypto, but then it will be partially your fault because you did something you should not have. With credit cards, you can become the victim of fraud through no fault of your own. I do think that is a difference worth pointing out.

jasongi 5y ago
Sure, but I think the risk is overrated. Almost all online shops outsource payment processing to a third party payment gateway, which you can validate pretty easily. They never get access to your details in order to abuse them. Third party payment processor breaches where CC data is lost are quite rare I don't think I've read about one in a very long time. Sure, I guess you can't get phished out of secrets with crypto like you could with a credit card, but that's never happened to me, and probably won't happen to you unless you aren't very good at detecting dodgy websites. Also, if you fall for those kinds of scams, I have some monkey jpgs I want to sell you. The real benefit to crypto here is that you can send money, to anyone, anywhere in the world.
- randomhodler84 5y ago
  The last time my cc was compromised is when the bad guys injected js into a large e-commerce site and stole the card data. This is a real threat. I’d rather not use any pull based payment mechanism if possible. Push only.
  - jasongi 5y ago
    I understand the potential security issues. But the only affect this would have had on you is you would have had to contact your bank to reissue the card and chargeback any fraudulent transaction. Consider a similar hack on a site that accepted Bitcoin instead of credit cards. The fraudulent JS replaces the payment address with the hacker's address and you send your coin to it. There's no getting your money back now. I know which outcome I would prefer. However based on your username there is probably some bias in your argument.
    - randomhodler84 5y ago
      Getting new cards is a pain, especially if you are traveling. You are without a card for a bit until it is replaced. And chargebacks are a headache. That is a good point about malware, However I would bet address substitution would be discovered a lot more quickly. Magecart was ripping vendors for weeks before the cc vendors tipped them off. 1 bad purchase flow and the customer complains and the site would investigate. It’s pwned for minutes not weeks. Cc theft can be silent and might only strike its victims months after the compromise. The difference is the victim. In a malware scenario, cc’s it’s the card holder, with cryptocurrency it’s the vendor that is getting screwed.
      - jasongi 5y ago
        > The difference is the victim. In a malware scenario, cc’s it’s the card holder, with cryptocurrency it’s the vendor that is getting screwed. This makes no sense. The CC holder isn't screwed, they are mildly inconvenienced while they wait for a replacement card. It doesn't matter how many months after a breach it happens - the person who ends up without money is whe merchant who the fraudster used the stolen card with, because they will get a chargeback fee and lose stock (if they sent it out before chargebacks happen). The vendor isn't screwed in in the cryptocurrency situation. The vendor isn't out of pocket (except for losing a sale). The person who sent the money to the hacked address (i.e you) are. Maybe the vendor will decide to send you the product anyway because their site got hacked, but that would be entirely up to them and not a function of the payment method used. I can see how it might aid early detection. But I don't see how in that scenario you're safer using Bitcoin. The malware could be on the customers computer rather than the website. It could only be altering one in every 100 transactions. It could not be malware, it could just be a vendor selectively scamming. There are many nice features in cryptocurrency, but consumer protection is not one of them and it's a weird thing to espouse.
Swenrekcah 5y ago
True, but that anonymity could trivially (for some definition of trivial) be implemented by the CC issuer.
yunohn 5y ago
> With crypto, the only thing you give out is your public key That’s not really true. The service/product provider can and will ask for more details, like name, address, etc - it has nothing to do with the mode of payment.
- dskloet 5y ago
  If it's an online service they don't need your address.