3 ms·

From https://wiki.mozilla.org/Donate_Bitcoin https://wiki.mozilla.org/Donate_Bitcoin: > Does giving cryptocurrency result in more of my charitable donation goi

From https://wiki.mozilla.org/Donate_Bitcoin https://wiki.mozilla.org/Donate_Bitcoin: > Does giving cryptocurrency result in more of my charitable donation going to transaction fees? > No. Bitpay’s service fees, at a flat 1%, are actually lower than credit card or Paypal transaction fees. How does that answer the question? The question was about cryptocurrency fees, which is not answered. Or is BitPay eating the transaction costs, if so, how is their business model viable? (Bypassing the issue that using BitPay is nowhere near decentralization and defeats the entire purpose of cryptocurrencies) > What personal information does Mozilla require cryptocurrency donors to provide? > In most cases, Mozilla requires only an email address [...] That seems false, the form is asking me for Name, Address, Phone number and more AFK details if I try to donate. Again, antithetical to the original purpose of cryptocurrencies.

celticninja 5y ago
You miss the point that the transaction fee is paid by the sender. If I am donating to Mozilla then I send my cryptocurrency, pay the required fee and then Mozilla gets the sum I sent. In this case bitpay take 1% of the donation and probably bundle them all up and pay Mozilla at the end of the week/month in cryptocurrency (1 transaction so only 1 fee) or in fiat.
- lottin 5y ago
  > the transaction fee is paid by the sender You don't know that. The sender can pass the transaction fee on to Mozilla simply by deducting it from the donated amount.
  - mike_d 5y ago
    The sender has to pay the transaction fee to get it on the network.
    - lottin 5y ago
      This doesn't contradict what I said.
- capableweb 5y ago
  > You miss the point that the transaction fee is paid by the sender No, I haven't missed that. So if I send 10 USD via Ethereum to Mozilla, BitPay will take 1% of the amount that reaches Mozilla, but I'll also pay a huge transaction fee on top of that, making it almost guaranteed that I'll pay more in transaction fees than what Mozilla actually gets. That means that the answer to the question "Does giving cryptocurrency result in more of my charitable donation going to transaction fees?" is a sound "Yes" in some cases.
  - celticninja 5y ago
    I guess it's a technicality whether the tx fee is part of the donation or not.
    - tsimionescu 5y ago
      It's not a technicality when the question was "will more of my money be going on transaction fees?".
  - darawk 5y ago
    Bitpay accepts plenty of cryptocurrencies with very low tx fees.
    - capableweb 5y ago
      Sure, but since the page is called "Donate Bitcoin" and the announcement is explicitly mentioning Dogecoin, Bitcoin and Ethereum, I think it's safe to assume they are mainly focused on Bitcoin.
  - roenxi 5y ago
    The only part of the equation that you don't have available is what BitPay's margin is. Mozilla gave that to you. Mozilla can't figure out what your transaction cost is, because it is variable. You have much better information on that part of the transaction than they do.
    - 5y ago
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  That only means it's easier for me to know exactly how much money Mozilla is getting. But the real question is: if I have the equivalent of 10 USD in some form, how can I make sure Mozilla gets as much of those 10 USD as possible? The answer will almost certainly be traditional payments infra, especially for small sums. Even if I currently have 10USD worth of BTC, it may be more efficient for me to convert it to actual USD and pay whatever is left through PayPal/a credit card then it is to make an on-chain transaction.
carnitine 5y ago
The question is whether more is lost to transaction fees. They seem to answer that perfectly, no? There’s no way of donating money electronically without some fee.
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  The transaction fees for paying with Visa/PayPal etc are MUCH lower than paying with Bitcoin or Ethereum, especially for small donations - for small donations, it's quite possible for BTC/ETH transaction fees to be well over 100% of the transaction value. Quoting the additional BitPay fee only is completely misleading.
  - randomhodler84 5y ago
    BTC costs $0.06/tx to the sender currently (1sat/vbyte) The vendor can set up their own payment gateways, or use a system like bitpay and pay 1%, which is cheaper than a cc. Then there is lightning that may cost single sats or less. Eth is an expensive gas coin and will cost multiple dollars or more to trade or sell. Agreed about that.
    - tsimionescu 5y ago
      According to this tracking site [0], it's actually been pretty steady at 2.6USD/tx for the past 6 months. [0] https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_fee https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_f...
      - randomhodler84 5y ago
        Yeah, what’s funny about that is 80% or more of tx are overpaying by a great great deal. Check out mempool.space, currently a high priority next block cost is about 14 sat, yet most of the txs are using far more. I think there are some very bad wallets out there. You can do minimum fee txs nearly all the time. Blocks generally are not full for long periods, so a 1sat tx will confirm eventually.
      - 5y ago
boomboomsubban 5y ago
>That seems false, the form is asking me for Name, Address, Phone number and more AFK details if I try to donate Only the name and e-mail fields are marked as required, dunno if the name would accept anonymous for small donations. >Again, antithetical to the original purpose of cryptocurrencies. Sure, but donations have certain laws an organization needs to follow.

celticninja 5y ago

You miss the point that the transaction fee is paid by the sender. If I am donating to Mozilla then I send my cryptocurrency, pay the required fee and then Mozilla gets the sum I sent. In this case bitpay take 1% of the donation and probably bundle them all up and pay Mozilla at the end of the week/month in cryptocurrency (1 transaction so only 1 fee) or in fiat.

lottin 5y ago
> the transaction fee is paid by the sender You don't know that. The sender can pass the transaction fee on to Mozilla simply by deducting it from the donated amount.
- mike_d 5y ago
  The sender has to pay the transaction fee to get it on the network.
  - lottin 5y ago
    This doesn't contradict what I said.
capableweb 5y ago
> You miss the point that the transaction fee is paid by the sender No, I haven't missed that. So if I send 10 USD via Ethereum to Mozilla, BitPay will take 1% of the amount that reaches Mozilla, but I'll also pay a huge transaction fee on top of that, making it almost guaranteed that I'll pay more in transaction fees than what Mozilla actually gets. That means that the answer to the question "Does giving cryptocurrency result in more of my charitable donation going to transaction fees?" is a sound "Yes" in some cases.
- celticninja 5y ago
  I guess it's a technicality whether the tx fee is part of the donation or not.
  - tsimionescu 5y ago
    It's not a technicality when the question was "will more of my money be going on transaction fees?".
- darawk 5y ago
  Bitpay accepts plenty of cryptocurrencies with very low tx fees.
  - capableweb 5y ago
    Sure, but since the page is called "Donate Bitcoin" and the announcement is explicitly mentioning Dogecoin, Bitcoin and Ethereum, I think it's safe to assume they are mainly focused on Bitcoin.
- roenxi 5y ago
  The only part of the equation that you don't have available is what BitPay's margin is. Mozilla gave that to you. Mozilla can't figure out what your transaction cost is, because it is variable. You have much better information on that part of the transaction than they do.
  - 5y ago
tsimionescu 5y ago
That only means it's easier for me to know exactly how much money Mozilla is getting. But the real question is: if I have the equivalent of 10 USD in some form, how can I make sure Mozilla gets as much of those 10 USD as possible? The answer will almost certainly be traditional payments infra, especially for small sums. Even if I currently have 10USD worth of BTC, it may be more efficient for me to convert it to actual USD and pay whatever is left through PayPal/a credit card then it is to make an on-chain transaction.

carnitine 5y ago

The question is whether more is lost to transaction fees. They seem to answer that perfectly, no? There’s no way of donating money electronically without some fee.

tsimionescu 5y ago
The transaction fees for paying with Visa/PayPal etc are MUCH lower than paying with Bitcoin or Ethereum, especially for small donations - for small donations, it's quite possible for BTC/ETH transaction fees to be well over 100% of the transaction value. Quoting the additional BitPay fee only is completely misleading.
- randomhodler84 5y ago
  BTC costs $0.06/tx to the sender currently (1sat/vbyte) The vendor can set up their own payment gateways, or use a system like bitpay and pay 1%, which is cheaper than a cc. Then there is lightning that may cost single sats or less. Eth is an expensive gas coin and will cost multiple dollars or more to trade or sell. Agreed about that.
  - tsimionescu 5y ago
    According to this tracking site [0], it's actually been pretty steady at 2.6USD/tx for the past 6 months. [0] https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_fee https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_f...
    - randomhodler84 5y ago
      Yeah, what’s funny about that is 80% or more of tx are overpaying by a great great deal. Check out mempool.space, currently a high priority next block cost is about 14 sat, yet most of the txs are using far more. I think there are some very bad wallets out there. You can do minimum fee txs nearly all the time. Blocks generally are not full for long periods, so a 1sat tx will confirm eventually.
    - 5y ago

boomboomsubban 5y ago

>That seems false, the form is asking me for Name, Address, Phone number and more AFK details if I try to donate Only the name and e-mail fields are marked as required, dunno if the name would accept anonymous for small donations. >Again, antithetical to the original purpose of cryptocurrencies. Sure, but donations have certain laws an organization needs to follow.