39 ms·

so what, taxes now become a voluntary contribution to whatever charity you want to donate to? And you don't see any scale issues with that?

notch656a 5y ago
>taxes now become a voluntary contribution to whatever charity yes >And you don't see any scale issues with that? No. I see it vastly superior as private competition ensures people can donate to charities they find most effective, rather than monopolized government with little incentive for efficiency.
- mathnmusic 5y ago
  Is there a single economy that demonstrates this working effectively without taxes?
  - notch656a 5y ago
    - mathnmusic 5y ago
      I didn't say "income tax" or "federal tax". I asked for examples of economies that don't collect taxes but have been effective. Survival is one important aspect of "being effective". So, an example that has survived to the present day would be more relevant. The reason why charities underfund public goods is because of the well-known free-rider problem. It's the same reason why cryptocurrencies need to collect transaction fees and reward miners and cannot rely on charitable miners. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-rider_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-rider_problem
      - notch656a 5y ago
        The OP I responded to said income and sales tax. You're just copping out by saying that I've fulfilled the criteria laid out was somehow wrong. But even without taxes, a charity can exist. I guess you think all dead men were failures, if survival to present day is your criteria. The "frees-rider" problem applies to government programs, too. But you're right, we can't just depend on charity. We need for profit enterprise too.
- smaudet 5y ago
  We tried private ambulances and that is an ongoing disaster, what you are describing is a personal army or guard, look at history to see the plethora of problems with those... Not that Police are perfect, far from it, but I'd rather a force I can sue in court and protects me from my enemies even if I'm broke than a private militia. You could have Police-As-Contractors I guess but unless that comes with some legal innovations that just adds another layer of bureacracy. Objectively terrible idea.
- vicda 5y ago
  This means people will mostly give their money to the loudest charities that spend the most on marketing, not on their actual effectiveness. Boring yet important projects will get almost nothing with this model. Don't make the economist mistake of assuming that people are perfectly rational actors.
  - notch656a 5y ago
    - mentalpiracy 5y ago
      Ah yes, taxes are theft. The solution to government-mandates taxes is _obviously_ private enterprise! Surely no private company would ever do something as unseemly as threatening someone’s livelihood in order to extract payment.
      - notch656a 5y ago
- mentalpiracy 5y ago
  The idea that privately-managed charity could adequately address even one of the numerous structural-level problems in our society is tremendously naive.
  - notch656a 5y ago
    Well if mentalpiracy says achieving a huge goal privately is naive, it must be so. But I think that discounts the massive achievements and structural changes around us that private enterprise has contributed to. It seems naive to believe humans can't solve large problems, or at least improve their lot, without men with guns forcing them to pay up for it.

notch656a 5y ago

>taxes now become a voluntary contribution to whatever charity yes >And you don't see any scale issues with that? No. I see it vastly superior as private competition ensures people can donate to charities they find most effective, rather than monopolized government with little incentive for efficiency.

mathnmusic 5y ago
Is there a single economy that demonstrates this working effectively without taxes?
- notch656a 5y ago
  - mathnmusic 5y ago
    I didn't say "income tax" or "federal tax". I asked for examples of economies that don't collect taxes but have been effective. Survival is one important aspect of "being effective". So, an example that has survived to the present day would be more relevant. The reason why charities underfund public goods is because of the well-known free-rider problem. It's the same reason why cryptocurrencies need to collect transaction fees and reward miners and cannot rely on charitable miners. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-rider_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-rider_problem
    - notch656a 5y ago
      The OP I responded to said income and sales tax. You're just copping out by saying that I've fulfilled the criteria laid out was somehow wrong. But even without taxes, a charity can exist. I guess you think all dead men were failures, if survival to present day is your criteria. The "frees-rider" problem applies to government programs, too. But you're right, we can't just depend on charity. We need for profit enterprise too.
smaudet 5y ago
We tried private ambulances and that is an ongoing disaster, what you are describing is a personal army or guard, look at history to see the plethora of problems with those... Not that Police are perfect, far from it, but I'd rather a force I can sue in court and protects me from my enemies even if I'm broke than a private militia. You could have Police-As-Contractors I guess but unless that comes with some legal innovations that just adds another layer of bureacracy. Objectively terrible idea.
vicda 5y ago
This means people will mostly give their money to the loudest charities that spend the most on marketing, not on their actual effectiveness. Boring yet important projects will get almost nothing with this model. Don't make the economist mistake of assuming that people are perfectly rational actors.
- notch656a 5y ago
  - mentalpiracy 5y ago
    Ah yes, taxes are theft. The solution to government-mandates taxes is _obviously_ private enterprise! Surely no private company would ever do something as unseemly as threatening someone’s livelihood in order to extract payment.
    - notch656a 5y ago
mentalpiracy 5y ago
The idea that privately-managed charity could adequately address even one of the numerous structural-level problems in our society is tremendously naive.
- notch656a 5y ago
  Well if mentalpiracy says achieving a huge goal privately is naive, it must be so. But I think that discounts the massive achievements and structural changes around us that private enterprise has contributed to. It seems naive to believe humans can't solve large problems, or at least improve their lot, without men with guns forcing them to pay up for it.