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Honda responds “We have escalated the NAVI Clock Issue to our Engineering Team and they have informed us that you will experience issue from Jan 2022 thru Augus

Honda responds “We have escalated the NAVI Clock Issue to our Engineering Team and they have informed us that you will experience issue from Jan 2022 thru August 2022 and then it will auto-correct.” https://www.crvownersclub.com/threads/2022-clock-fault-official-honda-responses-all-models.224397/ https://www.crvownersclub.com/threads/2022-clock-fault-offic...

londons_explore 5y ago
You know what would have been better...? "We have made a small fix, and rerun all our build processes. Put this file on a USB drive plugged into the car and it will resolve the issue".
- sschueller 5y ago
  Or do what HP does, charge $35 for a Floppy disk instead of offering it for free download because you know, someone could use this device driver made for a specific HP model with some other hardware... /s
  - hbrav 5y ago
    Floppy disk? You were lucky. When I contacted HP they sent me a box of punch-cards... /s
- fredoralive 5y ago
  The issues seems to be with an old model, people talk about 2007, 2010 models etc. If they have USB ports, they'll probably be charge only, or only connected to the audio system / infotainment for iPod playback (latter might be an update path if its an infotainment system only issue). You can probably only do control unit updates over CAN (or custom methods), so unless you're a particular type of car enthusiast only a garage will have the tools. Plus the general digital archaeology needed to get a decade old project / branch and get it and the developer tools back into a state where you can compile and test it. Probably hard to get a fix in a few days if its only just been found. That's if a non-safety critical issue on a 10+ year old car that will fix itself in 8 months is considered worthy of fixing. In more general I suspect car companies are a bit reluctant for self-service updates like that because of the potential to brick something. If the clock problem is just tied to an infotainment display, losing that would just annoy the customer until it got to a dealer. If it for example disabled the instrument cluster, then that's a safety issue and might make the car illegal to drive (depending on local laws). If its at a dealer, a failed update can be fixed directly by the technician (replace part, or use alternative programming method etc.). Although newer cars (particularly Tesla) are perhaps seem a bit more happy to do things like OTA updates. You really hope they don't take a "build fast and break things" approach to development. And have good self-recovery systems.
  - bri3d 5y ago
    These infotainment modules do have DVD updates available, although it's unclear what code the DVDs can update (they can certainly provide a new version of the mapping application so it's evident they can replace code as well as data, but I don't know the system enough to know if they could update other functionalities). It's also unclear if the issue is too systemic to be solved by updating a single module. But, generally speaking, infotainment is already much more user-update friendly than you suggest - many infotainment modules will take (hopefully signed) updates over DVD, SD, or USB.
- foobarian 5y ago
  The good news: you can fix your car's firmware by plugging in a random USB fob. The bad news: you can fix your car's firmware by plugging in a random USB fob.
  - bri3d 5y ago
    This is actually pretty common and for the most part the updates are signed and require user action to install. Now, of course, the signature checking is usually broken, because it's automotive stuff, but it is there :)
jakub_g 5y ago
Genuinely interested how this will self-fix after August 2022.
- moeadham 5y ago
  The engineer who wrote the code will retire in Aug. Problem solved
  - benjaminwai 5y ago
    I kind of sympathize the engineer who had to code this in the first place years ago. I could see it, it was probably a junior person being thrown into it. He would have had to deal with non-standard components, incompatible packages and limited memory, and had a manager breathing down his neck because the manufacturing line was starting up.. He's probably looking up at the clock and thinking that it had enough bits for the foreseeable future.
    - throwaway472927 5y ago
      I'd be a bit surprised if anyone even checked, it's easy to type int out of habit when a number is needed, or even if the dev did consider it the code building and running might be enough reassurance.
  - AshamedCaptain 5y ago
    Or rather: it's the latest date we are legally required to support this piece of software on these old cars on any tier-one country.
- phkahler 5y ago
  August is the 8th month. Something something octal...
bnabholz 5y ago
I have this problem on my 2006 Civic. I wondered if it was a GPS week rollover issue. Week numbers are 10 bits and roll over every 1024 weeks[0]. Jan 2nd, 2022 was the start of week 143 on the 2019 epoch. They may have programmed it such that "for week numbers 143-1023, assume the 1999 epoch is used; for week numbers 0-142, assume the 2019 epoch was used." Without having the clock "remember" the latest year it has seen from GPS (e.g. by writing into EEPROM), it would to be limited to 19.6 years of useful life. It's a matter of choosing which epoch they wanted to associate groups of week numbers with. There's something more to it though, since if it was using the wrong epoch, the date would be off but the time would still be correct. Week 143 on the 1999 epoch would be May-ish 2002 but the observed behavior is that the clocks are all stuck around 4:00 on Jan 1, 2002 (and shown as a Sunday, when it was actually a Tuesday). Since the 1999 epoch started on Aug 22, 1999, I am wondering if that's another piece to the puzzle and why they suggest it will auto-correct in August. It's an interesting problem and I'm curious about the root cause, but in reality this will just be the push I need to get a newer radio that can do CarPlay/Android Auto. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_week_number_rollover https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_week_number_rollover

londons_explore 5y ago

You know what would have been better...? "We have made a small fix, and rerun all our build processes. Put this file on a USB drive plugged into the car and it will resolve the issue".

sschueller 5y ago
Or do what HP does, charge $35 for a Floppy disk instead of offering it for free download because you know, someone could use this device driver made for a specific HP model with some other hardware... /s
- hbrav 5y ago
  Floppy disk? You were lucky. When I contacted HP they sent me a box of punch-cards... /s
fredoralive 5y ago
The issues seems to be with an old model, people talk about 2007, 2010 models etc. If they have USB ports, they'll probably be charge only, or only connected to the audio system / infotainment for iPod playback (latter might be an update path if its an infotainment system only issue). You can probably only do control unit updates over CAN (or custom methods), so unless you're a particular type of car enthusiast only a garage will have the tools. Plus the general digital archaeology needed to get a decade old project / branch and get it and the developer tools back into a state where you can compile and test it. Probably hard to get a fix in a few days if its only just been found. That's if a non-safety critical issue on a 10+ year old car that will fix itself in 8 months is considered worthy of fixing. In more general I suspect car companies are a bit reluctant for self-service updates like that because of the potential to brick something. If the clock problem is just tied to an infotainment display, losing that would just annoy the customer until it got to a dealer. If it for example disabled the instrument cluster, then that's a safety issue and might make the car illegal to drive (depending on local laws). If its at a dealer, a failed update can be fixed directly by the technician (replace part, or use alternative programming method etc.). Although newer cars (particularly Tesla) are perhaps seem a bit more happy to do things like OTA updates. You really hope they don't take a "build fast and break things" approach to development. And have good self-recovery systems.
- bri3d 5y ago
  These infotainment modules do have DVD updates available, although it's unclear what code the DVDs can update (they can certainly provide a new version of the mapping application so it's evident they can replace code as well as data, but I don't know the system enough to know if they could update other functionalities). It's also unclear if the issue is too systemic to be solved by updating a single module. But, generally speaking, infotainment is already much more user-update friendly than you suggest - many infotainment modules will take (hopefully signed) updates over DVD, SD, or USB.
foobarian 5y ago
The good news: you can fix your car's firmware by plugging in a random USB fob. The bad news: you can fix your car's firmware by plugging in a random USB fob.
- bri3d 5y ago
  This is actually pretty common and for the most part the updates are signed and require user action to install. Now, of course, the signature checking is usually broken, because it's automotive stuff, but it is there :)

jakub_g 5y ago

Genuinely interested how this will self-fix after August 2022.

moeadham 5y ago
The engineer who wrote the code will retire in Aug. Problem solved
- benjaminwai 5y ago
  I kind of sympathize the engineer who had to code this in the first place years ago. I could see it, it was probably a junior person being thrown into it. He would have had to deal with non-standard components, incompatible packages and limited memory, and had a manager breathing down his neck because the manufacturing line was starting up.. He's probably looking up at the clock and thinking that it had enough bits for the foreseeable future.
  - throwaway472927 5y ago
    I'd be a bit surprised if anyone even checked, it's easy to type int out of habit when a number is needed, or even if the dev did consider it the code building and running might be enough reassurance.
- AshamedCaptain 5y ago
  Or rather: it's the latest date we are legally required to support this piece of software on these old cars on any tier-one country.
phkahler 5y ago
August is the 8th month. Something something octal...

bnabholz 5y ago

I have this problem on my 2006 Civic. I wondered if it was a GPS week rollover issue. Week numbers are 10 bits and roll over every 1024 weeks[0]. Jan 2nd, 2022 was the start of week 143 on the 2019 epoch. They may have programmed it such that "for week numbers 143-1023, assume the 1999 epoch is used; for week numbers 0-142, assume the 2019 epoch was used." Without having the clock "remember" the latest year it has seen from GPS (e.g. by writing into EEPROM), it would to be limited to 19.6 years of useful life. It's a matter of choosing which epoch they wanted to associate groups of week numbers with. There's something more to it though, since if it was using the wrong epoch, the date would be off but the time would still be correct. Week 143 on the 1999 epoch would be May-ish 2002 but the observed behavior is that the clocks are all stuck around 4:00 on Jan 1, 2002 (and shown as a Sunday, when it was actually a Tuesday). Since the 1999 epoch started on Aug 22, 1999, I am wondering if that's another piece to the puzzle and why they suggest it will auto-correct in August. It's an interesting problem and I'm curious about the root cause, but in reality this will just be the push I need to get a newer radio that can do CarPlay/Android Auto. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_week_number_rollover https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS_week_number_rollover