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One of my kids thrived and loved online learning. The other didn't. The one that liked it had an outgoing energetic, tech enabled teacher that liked his job.

by sh4un 5y ago

One of my kids thrived and loved online learning. The other didn't. The one that liked it had an outgoing energetic, tech enabled teacher that liked his job. The other teacher however was a grumpy lady that couldnt be bothered learning any technology and didn't turn on her camera, forced the kids to keep their mics and cameras off and spent more time probably being elsewhere instead of teaching. Ontario is a province that if you were to ask teachers why they are teachers, the answers at the bottom of everyone's list would be teaching, spending time with kids. Most people in Ontario hate teachers because of their odd detachment from reality.

kspacewalk2 5y ago
I don't think what you say about Ontario teachers is true. Both from my own time in school two decades ago, and seeing my kid's teachers a bit more "close up" due to zoom pretend-learning, there are a lot of great ones. The problem is unions, specifically seniority. I've found an inverse correlation between age/tenure and quality. The worst teacher my kid has had is the only one on the sunshine list (names and salaries of everyone working in the public sector who make >$100k is published in Ontario). The incentives are so fucked up due to seniority that it really damages the school system, but there are lots and lots of passionate and good teachers doing a good job despite it all.
- sh4un 5y ago
  We're on the same page here.
- rtikulit 5y ago
  Chesterton's fence applies. The seniority system has serious drawbacks, but it has the advantage of being simple and difficult to game. It limits the damage caused to organizations by manipulators who would use more sophisticated systems to rig the workforce for personal or political advantage. It means that the average Ontario kid will encounter an average and well-distributed selection of both good and horrible teachers. Ignore the value of that at your peril. My kids are+were in the Ontario system. I pay attention to their quality of education. Across my parenting circles there are kids in every type of school and program conceivable. I could afford to send mine to private school if I thought it necessary. One of my kids is now at a competitive university with smart and hardworking kids from across the globe and he was well-prepared by his high school. In my opinion we are getting a good distribution of good outcomes, should consider ourselves lucky, and be careful not to take our system for granted, or accidentally break it through ideology or ignorance. And almost no one knows what works and what doesn't, but I believe that part of what works is treating teaching as the serious and challenging profession that it is, and letting them get on with it. You know, pretty much what we want from our stakeholders? I am very much of the opinion that we must be all-in on one public school system, with explicit objectives: providing a good education, underpinning social cohesion, encouraging individual diversity, seeking equality of opportunity. (I am not a teacher or in any union, and neither is anyone in my family.)
rtikulit 5y ago
What are you smoking? What darkest Ontario timeline do you live in? I live in Ontario, was educated here, have kids in the system, hobnob with zillions of parents, interact with my kid's teachers and know a couple socially. Teachers are not materially hated or loved any more than any other type of worker that the public interacts with frequently. They are just people, like the rest of us. I file comments like yours under “haters gonna hate” and “cheerleading for the race to the bottom.”
- sh4un 5y ago
  I feel like I would be a horrible person for mentioning what is probably the obvious. I file comments like yours unders "Jesus, that white privilege must taste so fucking wonderful". That's why you can probably find an amazingly large amount of people not in your acceptable pigmentation that don't agree with you one bit. I think the Brampton school board just had a lawsuit that sums that shit up nicely.
  - rtikulit 5y ago
    I feel like you have changed the topic, or maybe this was your topic all along and I didn't pick up on the coding. So no, it is not obvious. As topics, “teachers” is orthogonal to “structural racism”, and I suspect that blending them together will lead to less effective responses to real but separate problems in both areas. I was very much only speaking only to “teachers”. I'm aware of Brampton and more besides, and I won't insult you by excusing, explaining or “interpreting” racist behaviour or structural racism. You and your family deserve (and are owed), an “average” Ontario school experience largely untainted by them.
    - sh4un 5y ago
      "All my experiences are fantastic and everyone ever has been fantastic to me. Gosh golly, I can't even comprehend how the other 99.9999990% of the population doesn't share my opinion" I have an opinion, you have an opinion. You don't like my opinion, you can go fuck yourself with your fucking opinion that you and your mental illness share. Get the fuck outta here with that bullshit.

by sh4un 5y ago

kspacewalk2 5y ago

I don't think what you say about Ontario teachers is true. Both from my own time in school two decades ago, and seeing my kid's teachers a bit more "close up" due to zoom pretend-learning, there are a lot of great ones. The problem is unions, specifically seniority. I've found an inverse correlation between age/tenure and quality. The worst teacher my kid has had is the only one on the sunshine list (names and salaries of everyone working in the public sector who make >$100k is published in Ontario). The incentives are so fucked up due to seniority that it really damages the school system, but there are lots and lots of passionate and good teachers doing a good job despite it all.

sh4un 5y ago
We're on the same page here.
rtikulit 5y ago
Chesterton's fence applies. The seniority system has serious drawbacks, but it has the advantage of being simple and difficult to game. It limits the damage caused to organizations by manipulators who would use more sophisticated systems to rig the workforce for personal or political advantage. It means that the average Ontario kid will encounter an average and well-distributed selection of both good and horrible teachers. Ignore the value of that at your peril. My kids are+were in the Ontario system. I pay attention to their quality of education. Across my parenting circles there are kids in every type of school and program conceivable. I could afford to send mine to private school if I thought it necessary. One of my kids is now at a competitive university with smart and hardworking kids from across the globe and he was well-prepared by his high school. In my opinion we are getting a good distribution of good outcomes, should consider ourselves lucky, and be careful not to take our system for granted, or accidentally break it through ideology or ignorance. And almost no one knows what works and what doesn't, but I believe that part of what works is treating teaching as the serious and challenging profession that it is, and letting them get on with it. You know, pretty much what we want from our stakeholders? I am very much of the opinion that we must be all-in on one public school system, with explicit objectives: providing a good education, underpinning social cohesion, encouraging individual diversity, seeking equality of opportunity. (I am not a teacher or in any union, and neither is anyone in my family.)

rtikulit 5y ago

What are you smoking? What darkest Ontario timeline do you live in? I live in Ontario, was educated here, have kids in the system, hobnob with zillions of parents, interact with my kid's teachers and know a couple socially. Teachers are not materially hated or loved any more than any other type of worker that the public interacts with frequently. They are just people, like the rest of us. I file comments like yours under “haters gonna hate” and “cheerleading for the race to the bottom.”

sh4un 5y ago
I feel like I would be a horrible person for mentioning what is probably the obvious. I file comments like yours unders "Jesus, that white privilege must taste so fucking wonderful". That's why you can probably find an amazingly large amount of people not in your acceptable pigmentation that don't agree with you one bit. I think the Brampton school board just had a lawsuit that sums that shit up nicely.
- rtikulit 5y ago
  I feel like you have changed the topic, or maybe this was your topic all along and I didn't pick up on the coding. So no, it is not obvious. As topics, “teachers” is orthogonal to “structural racism”, and I suspect that blending them together will lead to less effective responses to real but separate problems in both areas. I was very much only speaking only to “teachers”. I'm aware of Brampton and more besides, and I won't insult you by excusing, explaining or “interpreting” racist behaviour or structural racism. You and your family deserve (and are owed), an “average” Ontario school experience largely untainted by them.
  - sh4un 5y ago
    "All my experiences are fantastic and everyone ever has been fantastic to me. Gosh golly, I can't even comprehend how the other 99.9999990% of the population doesn't share my opinion" I have an opinion, you have an opinion. You don't like my opinion, you can go fuck yourself with your fucking opinion that you and your mental illness share. Get the fuck outta here with that bullshit.