7 ms·

Why We Released Buggy Software

17 points by natasham25 15y ago

tptacek 15y ago
"Because this is the first iPhone app I ever built, after taking a 6 week class on iPhone development in Atlanta". You could have just said that, and people would have nodded and said "good on you". The rest of this post actually sapped your credibility.
- biznickman 15y ago
  If that was the point of the post that's what I would have written.
  - tptacek 15y ago
    Oh. Why did you release buggy software then? I assumed the point of the post was the answer to the question posed in the title. Sorry.
    - biznickman 15y ago
      It wasn't because I had just learned ios development. It was because we wanted to get feedback.
    - ams6110 15y ago
      To me, this was the point of the post: You see, the app, and more broadly Holler in general, can never possibly meet our expectations. We have spent months dreaming about the immense value we could bring to peoples’ lives with our product. The reality is that it is only the users that will be able to tell us what value we can bring though. That’s why we decided to launch. So even though the app wasn't perfect, not just incomplete but actually buggy, it was still usable enough to start getting feedback from users. Of course there's a line somewhere, if the app crashes for everyone you aren't going to get useful feedback. But if it mostly works and crashes occasionally, you probably will.
- veyron 15y ago
  I dont think that would have made for a good blog post.
  - biznickman 15y ago
    Agreed :)
pork 15y ago
"I was merely a web developer, not an iPhone developer" Thinking that alone is a mistake -- there is nothing magical about iPhone developers, and ios programming can be learned quickly. If you're doing a startup, you can't believe anything other people are doing is impossible to master. (that may very well be the case, but it always warrants investigation)
- eropple 15y ago
  That's not really true. For the most part (no, this isn't true everywhere, but for the most part), the tolerances are a lot looser in web development, in pretty much all areas. Unless you're getting pummeled on inadequate hardware, your performance choices in the backend of a web site or web app are probably going not going to harm anything. If you make bad performance choices on an iOS application, you'll create a stuttery, ugly mess (smooth scrolling in an iOS application is surprisingly nontrivial) that will--unforgivably--sap a user's battery and ruin their experience. People are a lot more forgiving of 2ms greater response time on a web page than a web app that drains 4% of battery in five minutes.
  - pork 15y ago
    No one is born writing elite code, and the question is one of overcoming fear to conquer new ground, even if modestly at first.
    - eropple 15y ago
      Yes, but subjecting other people (especially paying ones) to your novice code is kinda iffy.
      - pork 15y ago
        Not if it gets the job done.
        eropple 15y ago
powertower 15y ago
Not only do they release buggy software, they also crash IE8 instantly.
- biznickman 15y ago
  The homepage crashes in IE8 for you?
  - powertower 15y ago
    http://blog.holler.com/ http://blog.holler.com/ crashed IE8 (using Vista SP1).
n9com 15y ago
I agree with the 'release fast and often' approach. However, this is just an example of really poor testing. If a key button on your app causes it to crash, then there is no justification for that. You also pissed off a bunch of your users and many won't even bother to update. It's all fine and good getting a very basic v.1 out to get feedback - but it shouldn't crash due to an easy to detect bug.
paulmckeever 15y ago
Hey. Kudos on shipping! My honest feedback would be that your main point is lost in the story. Even though I read the whole article, the thing I was left thinking when I finished was that the root cause of your problem was 1) the failure of your contract developer to deliver and 2) you rushed an early version of the app out in 6 weeks without sufficient testing. For what it's worth, leading with a clear apology to those affected by the problem would do no harm. It would also help if you explained more clearly what _exactly_ you wanted to learn from the release that justified the impact of this bug on users. Eg, some key hypothesis or assumption in your business model or product roadmap etc. Good luck with the next iteration :)
- biznickman 15y ago
  Thanks for the feedback! I'll update the post ... that's what I get for a midnight article :)
huhtenberg 15y ago
> We are now well aware of the problem and have since submitted a version that fixes the problem for the vast majority of users. Well, you either found the problem and fixed it or you fixed something and now hoping it was what was crashing your app. Or you have multiple crash points in the app. If it still crashes - fine, you have more work ahead of you. Just don't try and twist words to make things look better than they are.
- biznickman 15y ago
  I can only laugh at this comment "don't try and twist words to make things look better than they are". Not twisting words, it's pretty straight forward.
  - huhtenberg 15y ago
    Well, does your updated version still crash once in a while?

17 points by natasham25 15y ago

"Because this is the first iPhone app I ever built, after taking a 6 week class on iPhone development in Atlanta". You could have just said that, and people would have nodded and said "good on you". The rest of this post actually sapped your credibility.

biznickman 15y ago
If that was the point of the post that's what I would have written.
- tptacek 15y ago
  Oh. Why did you release buggy software then? I assumed the point of the post was the answer to the question posed in the title. Sorry.
  - biznickman 15y ago
    It wasn't because I had just learned ios development. It was because we wanted to get feedback.
  - ams6110 15y ago
    To me, this was the point of the post: You see, the app, and more broadly Holler in general, can never possibly meet our expectations. We have spent months dreaming about the immense value we could bring to peoples’ lives with our product. The reality is that it is only the users that will be able to tell us what value we can bring though. That’s why we decided to launch. So even though the app wasn't perfect, not just incomplete but actually buggy, it was still usable enough to start getting feedback from users. Of course there's a line somewhere, if the app crashes for everyone you aren't going to get useful feedback. But if it mostly works and crashes occasionally, you probably will.
veyron 15y ago
I dont think that would have made for a good blog post.
- biznickman 15y ago
  Agreed :)

pork 15y ago

"I was merely a web developer, not an iPhone developer" Thinking that alone is a mistake -- there is nothing magical about iPhone developers, and ios programming can be learned quickly. If you're doing a startup, you can't believe anything other people are doing is impossible to master. (that may very well be the case, but it always warrants investigation)

eropple 15y ago
That's not really true. For the most part (no, this isn't true everywhere, but for the most part), the tolerances are a lot looser in web development, in pretty much all areas. Unless you're getting pummeled on inadequate hardware, your performance choices in the backend of a web site or web app are probably going not going to harm anything. If you make bad performance choices on an iOS application, you'll create a stuttery, ugly mess (smooth scrolling in an iOS application is surprisingly nontrivial) that will--unforgivably--sap a user's battery and ruin their experience. People are a lot more forgiving of 2ms greater response time on a web page than a web app that drains 4% of battery in five minutes.
- pork 15y ago
  No one is born writing elite code, and the question is one of overcoming fear to conquer new ground, even if modestly at first.
  - eropple 15y ago
    Yes, but subjecting other people (especially paying ones) to your novice code is kinda iffy.
    - pork 15y ago
      Not if it gets the job done.
      - eropple 15y ago

powertower 15y ago

Not only do they release buggy software, they also crash IE8 instantly.

biznickman 15y ago
The homepage crashes in IE8 for you?
- powertower 15y ago
  http://blog.holler.com/ http://blog.holler.com/ crashed IE8 (using Vista SP1).

n9com 15y ago

I agree with the 'release fast and often' approach. However, this is just an example of really poor testing. If a key button on your app causes it to crash, then there is no justification for that. You also pissed off a bunch of your users and many won't even bother to update. It's all fine and good getting a very basic v.1 out to get feedback - but it shouldn't crash due to an easy to detect bug.

paulmckeever 15y ago

Hey. Kudos on shipping! My honest feedback would be that your main point is lost in the story. Even though I read the whole article, the thing I was left thinking when I finished was that the root cause of your problem was 1) the failure of your contract developer to deliver and 2) you rushed an early version of the app out in 6 weeks without sufficient testing. For what it's worth, leading with a clear apology to those affected by the problem would do no harm. It would also help if you explained more clearly what _exactly_ you wanted to learn from the release that justified the impact of this bug on users. Eg, some key hypothesis or assumption in your business model or product roadmap etc. Good luck with the next iteration :)

biznickman 15y ago
Thanks for the feedback! I'll update the post ... that's what I get for a midnight article :)

huhtenberg 15y ago

> We are now well aware of the problem and have since submitted a version that fixes the problem for the vast majority of users. Well, you either found the problem and fixed it or you fixed something and now hoping it was what was crashing your app. Or you have multiple crash points in the app. If it still crashes - fine, you have more work ahead of you. Just don't try and twist words to make things look better than they are.

biznickman 15y ago
I can only laugh at this comment "don't try and twist words to make things look better than they are". Not twisting words, it's pretty straight forward.
- huhtenberg 15y ago
  Well, does your updated version still crash once in a while?